synergie TD gearbox problems

petherwins · Post by **petherwins** » 29 Mar 2009, 18:23

Hi all,I have problems with my gearbox,seems like the syncro according to other posts I've seen on here.I have been told that its a ML5 box and the guts from a peugeot 2.1 box is the same?
Dont mind having a go at this but would like some drawings/info for this job (have seen a link to "citroenweb" on here but dont know how to log in?
Got gearbox out (what a job!!!)plan to renew cluch aswell so trying to keep cost down as the bus aint worth too much.Its a 1999 1905 T/diesel.
Hope you can help me out,thanks in advance, Alan

Post by **CitroJim** » 29 Mar 2009, 19:36

Hi Alan,

Are you sure it's a ML5? I ask because nearly all 1.9TDs had the BE3.

You can tell easily as the ML5 has a hydraulic clutch and the gearchange is via cables. The BE3 has a cable clutch and the gearchange is via rods.

The ML5 is also much bigger and heavier than the BE3

If the BE3, they're not too bad for resolving a duff synchro. This Website gives some information but beware that a few home-made special tools and a hydraulic press are needed.

Be aware that new spares for all gearboxes are expensive. Last time I checked, a new BE3 synchro hub was the best part of £120. A good 'box (or even a donor) from a scrappy is beter value, even if you rob it of parts. All BE3 'boxes irrspective of ratios or fitment use the same synchro hubs.

The ML5 was used on the 2.1TD and on the 110HDi. An ML5 with slightly different gear ratios was also used on the Pugs and Cits fitted with the 2.0 TCT engine, that's the Xantia Activa, Turbo CT estate and 406 Executive to name but a few.

The ML5 is one 'box I've never stripped but generally, they'll be similar to the BE3.

I can let you have some exploded diagrams of the ML5 if necessary.

Post by **CitroJim** » 30 Mar 2009, 21:24

Alan,

The 1.9TD Synergy it seems could be fitted with two different gearboxes: The ME up until RP7111 and the ML5T from then on, both with cable clutch.

This is the ME

And this is the ML5

The ME appears to have one gearchange cable and the ML5, two.

Both 'boxes appear similar inside.

As soon as you have a positive ID, I'll dig out some exploded diagrams...

Gammy leg · Post by **Gammy leg** » 01 Apr 2009, 14:00

Alan,

BIG RESPECT on getting the box out. How long did it take you? What caused the most grief? Mine's still in the car, still with a duff 2nd gear syncro. May try sorting it one day.

Gammy

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 01 Apr 2009, 15:52

hi Gammy, I dont know much about the synergy model

but a BL3 TD box is not that bad to remove.. I wouldn't think its much different.?

driveshafts out, gearbox oil out, exhaust downpipe lowered, starter motor and clutch cable and a couple more wires

NS gearbox mount and thats about it...

A xantia one is about 1 1/2 hours for me to remove, all being well

John

(I may be well off the mark here though, Alan will have proper experience)

petherwins · Post by **petherwins** » 01 Apr 2009, 20:49

Wish it was like a Xantia! I split the box from engine(which is enough room to do the clutch) but looked as if either the subframe would have to be dropped or engine out!!
I went with engine out,most of the bits are off and only wiring/mount left.My plan is to do cambelt and clutch while out and put box back on engine then back all in one lump.
Thanks to Jim for info,have found a box(out of a Fiat) put all back today and now I have a problem with Turbo/boost!!

petherwins · Post by **petherwins** » 01 Apr 2009, 20:58

Hi Gammy,took me best part of a day to remove(wort bits were bottom ball joints and exhaust) wish I had a ramp or pit!
If I were to do the job again I would take engine and box out in one,cheers Alan
ps. I hope my turbo problem dosn't mean all that work for nothing.

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 01 Apr 2009, 21:01

Yikes...

I did that with my xant to. pulled the whole lot out to do various jobs

Gammy leg · Post by **Gammy leg** » 03 Apr 2009, 15:59

Slightly off topic but I remember watching a game show years ago where a team of 3 or 4 VW enthusiasts removed and reinstalled a VW beetle engine in less than 2 minutes.( drove it in and drove it out afterwards ) They were up against a team of VW technicians. The enthusiasts won I believe. If only..............

Gammy