Another insane V6 owner

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ekaftan
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Another insane V6 owner

Post by ekaftan »

Hi,

My TurboCT is running fine, it no longer flashes lights at me or leave me stranded, so I got bored :) Nah... the truth is that I am having back and neck pain and it looks like the culprit is the low roof. I am tall enough that a sunroof equipped car makes me bang my head or drive crooked.

Anyway, I got offered a 99 Exclusive with a broken ZF4HP20 very cheap. Cheap enough that a dealer repair will still leave me with a cheap V6.

Question2:

-how much does a junkyard 4HP20 cost? Down here they ask for US$5000 and a new one is US$8500....
-Are spare parts avaliable?
-Am I insane?
jgra1
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Post by jgra1 »

where are you ekaftan ?

Two of us got some last month :)

£150 in total for 2 , and a total mileage of about 85K miles,,,

Jim may be able to help with the second question...

the third, well, :D

John
ekaftan
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Post by ekaftan »

jgra1 wrote:where are you ekaftan ?

Two of us got some last month :)

£150 in total for 2 , and a total mileage of about 85K miles,,,

Jim may be able to help with the second question...

the third, well, :D

John
I am in Santiago, Chile.

For that price I'll gladly buy one and ship ot to Chile if one of you is willing to act as a freight forwarder.... including shipping thats probable 1/3 of what the repair to mine would be...
jgra1
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BMW K1300 R
Honda V F R 800 5thG / MT500 Armstrong
x 39

Post by jgra1 »

if I could I would bring it myself :D
love to go to Chile..

wonder how much it costs to take 90 kgs as excess baggage

:shock: :D

to be fair, the two boxes we found were good deals.. but I think there are a few around.. I will ask the main supplier what he has...
Last edited by jgra1 on 07 Mar 2009, 00:22, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by addo »

wonder how much it costs to take 90 kgs as excess baggage
<Insert spouse joke here...>
jgra1
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Post by jgra1 »

:D very quick addo, i am still editing!

could be worse.. you could break a leg and make the cast from lets say, not the normal compound

http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World- ... roken_Bone :shock: :D
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Re: Another insane V6 owner

Post by xantia_v6 »

ekaftan wrote: Anyway, I got offered a 99 Exclusive with a broken ZF4HP20 very cheap.
How is the autobox broken?
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Post by CitroJim »

Hi ekaftan, here's another possibly insane V6 owner with a broken 4HP20...

Insane? Yes, possibly but it's great fun!!!

Second question. Yes, spares are freely available in the UK. The 4HP20 is a popular 'box and still in production.

Look in my V6 Blog and you can see there my stripdown of a 4HP20 and what might have gone wrong.

I also list details of a very good spares supplier in there.

Has yours done the usual thing and lost all drive?

Hopefully, after big delays due to a manically busy week, I'll be back working on the V6 today...

My next question is to see how badly damaged mine is.
Jim

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ekaftan
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Re: Another insane V6 owner

Post by ekaftan »

xantia_v6 wrote:
ekaftan wrote: Anyway, I got offered a 99 Exclusive with a broken ZF4HP20 very cheap.
How is the autobox broken?
It has one of the tipical failures, according to what I read. It drives ok for a couple of blocks, then it whines and loses all drive.

Here is a good description from another thread:
CitroJim wrote: Some more reasarch suggests the most typical failure is a whine followed not long after by loss of all drive. This is exactly what happened on this car. This appears to be caused by failure of the oil pump and that makes perfectly logical sense as without oil pressure, there is no hydraulics to engage any of the clutch-packs. What is not clear is any ramifications of the oil pump failing and just what goes wrong with it.
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Post by Old-Guy »

Treat my comments with caution!

About 30 years ago, the cheapest 'family' car we could find was an old (even then!) Hillman Minx Estate with a BW35 autobox. After a while, it developed a habit of dropping out of gear. We'd have to pull over wait a bit before carrying on.

There didn't seem to be any point in topping up the box with expensive new fluid if it (and thus the car) was a scrapper, so I drained the box and dropped its sump for a look-see. Fine gauze filter full of crap (clutch debris). Washed the filter in meths, wiped the sump and every other accessible surface clean and put it back (with silicon gasket) carefully. Poured in expensive ATF - bingo, box working better than ever before. I hasten to add this is my extent of 'repairing' autoboxes!

My point is: Ekaftan's problem is clearly lack of pressure rather than something broken. Pump worn-out maybe, hence only producing just enough pressure when box is cold, but I'd have thought the box takes a while longer to warm up than "a couple of blocks"? Could your common problem be crud blocking an uptake filter or a small drilling somewhere?
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Post by CitroJim »

That was a good effort Guy :D Practical Classics have just completed a series of articles on rebuilding the Borg-Warner 35. Good series too and it helped me understanding how an epicyclic autobox works.

You're spot on about ekaftan's (and my) problems stem from lack of oil pressure in the 'box. It is believed the filter does block but what causes it remains to be resolved. Soon we'll know as my duff 'box is coming ever closer to coming off the car due to good progress today.

The filter in the 4HP20 is a pad of felt essentially and filters to about a micron as I understand it. It does not take a lot of debris from the clutches (6 of them) to block it in a "sealed for life" 'box that cannot be fully drained. The one I've already stripped was 40K old and that had enough very fine debris in it so it'll be interesting to see what my 150K one looks like. I'm guessing it'll do a fair impression of coal-hole or an explosion in a pencil factory...

In addition to the 6 clutches in the 'box itself, the torque convertor has a "lock-up" clutch inside it (something the BW35 never had) and it seems there is a chance this breaks up and fills the 'box and filter with blocking debris.

It is a good idea to replace the TC even if it seems OK, along with the transmission cooler and the filter itself.

Watch my blog (Brief Encounter II) for more news as it happens...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
ekaftan
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1996 Volvo 940
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Post by ekaftan »

CitroJim wrote:

It is a good idea to replace the TC even if it seems OK, along with the transmission cooler and the filter itself.
Down here I can get the converter cracked open and the internal clutch replaced. Its not cheap though at around US$250...
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Post by CitroJim »

ekaftan wrote:Its not cheap though at around US$250...
Sounds very reasonable to me :D Worth shipping a TC to Chile and back for that price maybe!!!

I've seen references to "Remanufactured" TCs here in the UK but no idea of prices. I'll get some quotes on Monday if I have time.

I'll reply to your PM shortly Ekaftan...
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
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