Hello,
Can anyone advise if the subject engine is an interference type or not? I am paranoid about timing belt replacements. Mine was changed at 100,000 3 years ago and have since added 52,000. Annual mileage is due to drop considerably as now retired. Citroen recommend change at 100,000 or 10 years - so there is leeway on both counts at the moment. If there is a possiblilty of engine damage as a result of a broken belt then I would rather change it now. All comments/advice welcome as usual.
Regards,
John.
C5 2002 2.0 HDI
Moderator: RichardW
C5 2002 2.0 HDI
My chariots : 2002 Pug 406 110 HDI Executive Estate 138K
1995 Citroen AX 1.0 Debut 26K
I Blame it all on my Dad!! (Sadly had to give up driving & his 2nd BX) but Mum still has a C1.
1995 Citroen AX 1.0 Debut 26K
I Blame it all on my Dad!! (Sadly had to give up driving & his 2nd BX) but Mum still has a C1.
Hi -
If you by interference type mean if there is a free play between an open valve and a piston at TDC, then the answer is clearly NO.
And the answer would still be NO, if you ask the same question on any other combustion engine type found in any mainstream street cars.
Ancient engine types up to late '80es had this "feature" by design of the combustion chamber, especially most of the hemispheric shaped chamber types.
Some smart engine types takes advantage of the former wellknown rocker arm layout, where these rocker arms are made deliberately fragile such they are the first bits to snap or burst, to protect valves, pistons and cam axle.
Like a mechanical fuse link.
If you by interference type mean if there is a free play between an open valve and a piston at TDC, then the answer is clearly NO.
And the answer would still be NO, if you ask the same question on any other combustion engine type found in any mainstream street cars.
Ancient engine types up to late '80es had this "feature" by design of the combustion chamber, especially most of the hemispheric shaped chamber types.
Some smart engine types takes advantage of the former wellknown rocker arm layout, where these rocker arms are made deliberately fragile such they are the first bits to snap or burst, to protect valves, pistons and cam axle.
Like a mechanical fuse link.
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
Thanks Anders,
So from what you have said, it would appear that all mainstream engines built since the 80's will suffer severe internal damage in the event of timing belt/chain failure? What an engineering miracle!!
Regards,
John.
So from what you have said, it would appear that all mainstream engines built since the 80's will suffer severe internal damage in the event of timing belt/chain failure? What an engineering miracle!!
Regards,
John.
My chariots : 2002 Pug 406 110 HDI Executive Estate 138K
1995 Citroen AX 1.0 Debut 26K
I Blame it all on my Dad!! (Sadly had to give up driving & his 2nd BX) but Mum still has a C1.
1995 Citroen AX 1.0 Debut 26K
I Blame it all on my Dad!! (Sadly had to give up driving & his 2nd BX) but Mum still has a C1.
The 2.0 HDi is designed like this, as Anders describes.AndersDK wrote:Some smart engine types takes advantage of the former wellknown rocker arm layout, where these rocker arms are made deliberately fragile such they are the first bits to snap or burst, to protect valves, pistons and cam axle.
Like a mechanical fuse link.
A snapped belt will usually result in broken rockers, but often not much else.
I can confirm this, my timing belt slipped a month or two ago.
The engine, as said, is interference. However, the valves are perpendicular to the pistons, that is to say they are fitted in the head straight, rather than at an angle.
This usually means that any contact will make the valve shoot straight back up the guide and will break the rocker which takes the force. I was lucky and got away with just the 1 broken rocker, it is more usual - I'm told - for more to be broken. You would have to be very unlucky to get a bent valve but it is not unheard of.
The rockers are around £16 all in from Citroen dealer. Item 2 in the below diagram (you can see how the rocker transmits the movement of the cam to the valve, Item 1 being the tappet that automatically adjusts the valve clearance using oil pressure)
The engine, as said, is interference. However, the valves are perpendicular to the pistons, that is to say they are fitted in the head straight, rather than at an angle.
This usually means that any contact will make the valve shoot straight back up the guide and will break the rocker which takes the force. I was lucky and got away with just the 1 broken rocker, it is more usual - I'm told - for more to be broken. You would have to be very unlucky to get a bent valve but it is not unheard of.
The rockers are around £16 all in from Citroen dealer. Item 2 in the below diagram (you can see how the rocker transmits the movement of the cam to the valve, Item 1 being the tappet that automatically adjusts the valve clearance using oil pressure)
Toby
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Hi Guys,
Great info all round - many thanks!! Will Toby please elaborate on his belt slipping experience - I am intrigued.
Regards,
John.
Great info all round - many thanks!! Will Toby please elaborate on his belt slipping experience - I am intrigued.
Regards,
John.
My chariots : 2002 Pug 406 110 HDI Executive Estate 138K
1995 Citroen AX 1.0 Debut 26K
I Blame it all on my Dad!! (Sadly had to give up driving & his 2nd BX) but Mum still has a C1.
1995 Citroen AX 1.0 Debut 26K
I Blame it all on my Dad!! (Sadly had to give up driving & his 2nd BX) but Mum still has a C1.
In what way are you intrigued John?
Basically I was doing a cambelt change and I think it was my own fault in that I didn't tension the belt up enough and so it slipped a tooth or few when I took it for a run. As I say I only ended up with 1 rocker broken but it could have been worse...just glad it wasn't.
Any more questions, ask away. Thats what we're here for
Toby
Basically I was doing a cambelt change and I think it was my own fault in that I didn't tension the belt up enough and so it slipped a tooth or few when I took it for a run. As I say I only ended up with 1 rocker broken but it could have been worse...just glad it wasn't.
Any more questions, ask away. Thats what we're here for
Toby
Toby
Previous:
2004 Peugeot 407 HDi 138 SE Luxury Pack
2001 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
2001 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupé
1998 S2 Xantia Activa
2000 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
1999 Peugeot 406 2.0 16v Estate
Previous:
2004 Peugeot 407 HDi 138 SE Luxury Pack
2001 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
2001 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupé
1998 S2 Xantia Activa
2000 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
1999 Peugeot 406 2.0 16v Estate
Hi Toby,
I was intrigued by your belt slippage as I was wondering if it was a result of age or incorrect tensioning. You appear to have confirmed the latter, perhaps due to the absence of Citroen special tools #### when doing the job? I am, and always have been, sceptical about these tools and have usually managed to find something to do the job - maybe these timing belt tools are an exception to the rule? If you successfully tensioned the new belt without them, then I would be most interested to know how. Citroen also recommend replacing the belt tension assembly every other belt change - did you do so?
Regards,
John.
I was intrigued by your belt slippage as I was wondering if it was a result of age or incorrect tensioning. You appear to have confirmed the latter, perhaps due to the absence of Citroen special tools #### when doing the job? I am, and always have been, sceptical about these tools and have usually managed to find something to do the job - maybe these timing belt tools are an exception to the rule? If you successfully tensioned the new belt without them, then I would be most interested to know how. Citroen also recommend replacing the belt tension assembly every other belt change - did you do so?
Regards,
John.
My chariots : 2002 Pug 406 110 HDI Executive Estate 138K
1995 Citroen AX 1.0 Debut 26K
I Blame it all on my Dad!! (Sadly had to give up driving & his 2nd BX) but Mum still has a C1.
1995 Citroen AX 1.0 Debut 26K
I Blame it all on my Dad!! (Sadly had to give up driving & his 2nd BX) but Mum still has a C1.
Yes, I did not have access to the special tool. Thus I think that a loose belt contributed to the slippage. On refitting a new belt and sorting everything out I tightened everything up a bit more than I had done. Job done. Has been running now for a couple of weeks, including a trip to DickieG's and had no problems. I repalced the tensioner and pulley at the same time as the belt.
Toby
Previous:
2004 Peugeot 407 HDi 138 SE Luxury Pack
2001 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
2001 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupé
1998 S2 Xantia Activa
2000 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
1999 Peugeot 406 2.0 16v Estate
Previous:
2004 Peugeot 407 HDi 138 SE Luxury Pack
2001 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
2001 Peugeot 406 V6 Coupé
1998 S2 Xantia Activa
2000 S2 Xantia HDi 110 SX
1999 Peugeot 406 2.0 16v Estate