Xantia tyres

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 26 Jan 2009, 12:23

I know this has been posted many times before, but I think I have decided what tyres to go for after reading some reviews. I think it'll be Vredestein Sportrac 3's. The reviews are good and I believe there are assymeterical. Are there any other recommendations?

My question is this, with the fact your supposed to put the newer tyres on the back, do I also swap sides? That is to say do I put the rear o/s onto the front n/s and the rear n/s onto the fron o/s or do I just move them forward on the same size?

Thanks

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 26 Jan 2009, 13:20

Hi Toby,

I have 2 sportrac3s on my Xm, they are a fantastic tyre, im sure you wont be dissapointed

As far as swapping them around, ive never liked changing sides, often a tyre gets used to going one way and the steel in the tyres gets used to it. So it can cause problems, like wheel wobble and even tyre failure if the tyres are very old.

However. that may well be a myth

But ive never done it, you wont increase the tyres mileage much from doing that.

Citroen usually recommend you have the better tyres on the back. I know with my Xm the sportracs are fitted to the front, which really shows up the rear tyres. The rears are newish but Lassa or something (awful tyres but i needed a pair quick and that was all they had in). Under hard cornering its the back that stepd out first, which is fine as long as your ready for it and know how to control it!

So mine will be going on the rear when i refit them to my new wheels (just chaged to wobby web Xm wheels 8) ) and the cheapy ones on the front to wear them out first!

Its also a good thing to do, as rear tyres get very little use, they often need changing due to perishing rather than wear. So it keeps a constant rotation of tyres and also you dont suddenly go from near bald front tyres to new ones, which will have far more grip, leaving your rear tyres wanting.

Tyre pressure also has a lot to do with this mind.

Sportracs3 are definitely worth getting

handyman · Post by **handyman** » 26 Jan 2009, 13:24

Hi Toby, Vrederstein are a good quality tyre, I use them now on my ZX and I used to sell them. Cannot ever remember getting any back with manufacturing faults. Other than Michelin, they used to be one of the best balanced tyres, taking very little weights to dynamically balance a wheel assembly. Make sure you get the correct speed/load rating for the car, not just the cheapest.

As the tyres are asymmetrical, you wont be able to fit them onto the opposite side of the car as there will be a rotational arrow marked on the tyre. Unless you like driving in a very unpredictable and dangerous way!

To do it correctly, you should remove the tyre from the rim and refit it the opposite way round, so the directional arrow is pointing in the right direction.

There is a school of thought that reckons this can set up strange wear patterns in the tread. I always take the view, once the tyre and rim have been fitted and run, you should never break it down, unless the tyre is defective or worn.

That's my two bobs worth.

Handyman

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 26 Jan 2009, 13:56

I think my sportrac3s are V rated, the one up from what my Xm should have. Nothing wrong with that, just dont go a grade down!

Yes they are directional, but i was assuming Tobys current tyres were not.
They have large V shaped tread patterns, great for heavy rain, just as handyman said, not to be used the wrong way round.

Ive heard good things about Uniroyal tyres too, not experienced them myself but it may be an option if you cannot get the sportracs.

handyman · Post by **handyman** » 26 Jan 2009, 14:28

In my tyre selling days, we had a few bad experiences with the steel casings failing on Uniroyal tyres, whereby there would be very fine steel wires coming through the tread pattern. I believe they shared a manufacturing technique with Dunlop that had a similar problem, except the Dunlop treads would distort and fall off.

I am sure it is not the case nowadays, but I only buy tyres from manufacturers that I knew I could trust to make first class products, tyres being the most critical component on a car.

Having said that, I used to race motorcycles on Dunlop tyres!!

Handyman

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 26 Jan 2009, 17:40

Dunlop tyres are the worst tyres ive ever had on a car, you may as well take off the tyre and run on the rim! The grip is so poor!

The worst tyres for reliability ive had are Firestones, they went like 50p pieces! With high and low spots creating a very bad vibration and add tyre wear. They were on the car when i bought it and i didnt notice what the noise was about. Thought the tyres looked odd so i took them off and they were no longer round! Car felt much better after a new set of tyres!

Ive always liked Contis, they wear a bit quick, squeal under hard cornering but the grip is fantastic, on the premium contact 1s anyway.

Whats the views on Michelins on here? Ive always liekd them, not the grippiest tyre every, but great for wear and noise. Steep price but then they do usually last longer, so worth it?

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 26 Jan 2009, 17:48

Thanks for the input. I did look at some Uniroyals. Namely, Uniroyal Rainsport 2. They do not come in 15s though so that was them out the window.

I do think its going to be the Vredesteins. Now, where is the best place to get them? Obviously fully fitted and balanced. I know of some companies on the internet. I did try e-tyres but they don't seem to do them. Shame, as I would get a discount on them from there

Think it might be worth just having tracking and alignment checked after there on? Think I was quoted around £40 for 4-wheel alignment last year when I looked into it.

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 26 Jan 2009, 18:32

There is one called valuetyres or something, seem quite cheap and have a lot of brands. Not checked for those though.

I usually just go to the local tyre fitter, he usually matches online prices and can get in whatever tyre i want.

May be worth doing the tracking, are you fitting the new to the rear? How are your current front ones worn? Evenly?

handyman · Post by **handyman** » 26 Jan 2009, 18:56

Hi Toby, I think you will find the Vredersteins are available in the small independent tyre firms as I buy mine from a small local shop and they buy their tyres from wholesalers, like wot I wos.

It is worth shopping around and getting them from a shop rather than the internet, as any tyre firm will charge you to fit somebody else's tyres and if they go wrong, you have very little comeback.

Always worth getting the wheel alignment checked, especially if it is for free. Must be done on a flat level floor. Trouble is most tyre fitters are badly trained in using alignment gauges. Four wheel alignment is a load of bunkum on a Xantia as you cannot adjust the front to rear alignment. Mind you, there aren't many production cars that you can adjust the rear wheels on.

To adjust the alignment correctly, the gauges must be set before fitting, then fitted to the car, alignment checked and adjusted. And then the car must be rolled [u]back[/u] so the road wheels turn a full 360degs, the gauges refitted and the alignment rechecked. I do not know many tyre firms that do that!

It is always worth going back a week later and asking them to recheck, 'as the car is pulling to one side'. They will usually reset the alignment for free.

Dunlop used to make the best floor tracking gauges and that is what I use.

Handyman

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 26 Jan 2009, 19:32

Citroenmad wrote:As far as swapping them around, ive never liked changing sides, often a tyre gets used to going one way and the steel in the tyres gets used to it.

handyman wrote:As the tyres are asymmetrical, you wont be able to fit them onto the opposite side of the car as there will be a rotational arrow marked on the tyre. Unless you like driving in a very unpredictable and dangerous way!

Am I missing something here? Provided the tyre is mounted correctly i.e. as per the "outside" marking on the tyre, it will always rotate in the same direction regardless of what side of the car its fitted to. Yes the tyre will be "Upside down" on one side but that will always be the case unless the tyre manfacturer makes different tyres for each side i.e. a left side tyre and a right side tyre

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 26 Jan 2009, 19:53

Handyman, what is the name of the shop? I'm not sure we have anything like that round here. Just the usual selection of nationwide chains.

Do you still use the tracking equipment? Ie. can you still do it and is it suitable for a Xantia?

f00lzz · Post by **f00lzz** » 26 Jan 2009, 19:55

Citroenmad wrote:Dunlop tyres are the worst tyres ive ever had on a car, you may as well take off the tyre and run on the rim! The grip is so poor!

The worst tyres for reliability ive had are Firestones, they went like 50p pieces! With high and low spots creating a very bad vibration and add tyre wear. They were on the car when i bought it and i didnt notice what the noise was about. Thought the tyres looked odd so i took them off and they were no longer round! Car felt much better after a new set of tyres!

Ive always liked Contis, they wear a bit quick, squeal under hard cornering but the grip is fantastic, on the premium contact 1s anyway.

Whats the views on Michelins on here? Ive always liekd them, not the grippiest tyre every, but great for wear and noise. Steep price but then they do usually last longer, so worth it?

Wow!! As an ex Dunlop employee I find that a bitter pill to swallow.. I have nearly always run my cars on Dunlop because I always considered them the best and the only real competition was Michelin. Not many people realise that most technical knowledge with regards to tyre manufacture was developed by Dunlops huge International Development Centres and shared with the whole industry. But! I always say 'speak as you find'.

Ian

Citroenmad · Post by **Citroenmad** » 26 Jan 2009, 20:53

DickieG wrote:
Citroenmad wrote:As far as swapping them around, ive never liked changing sides, often a tyre gets used to going one way and the steel in the tyres gets used to it.

handyman wrote:As the tyres are asymmetrical, you wont be able to fit them onto the opposite side of the car as there will be a rotational arrow marked on the tyre. Unless you like driving in a very unpredictable and dangerous way!
Am I missing something here? Provided the tyre is mounted correctly i.e. as per the "outside" marking on the tyre, it will always rotate in the same direction regardless of what side of the car its fitted to. Yes the tyre will be "Upside down" on one side but that will always be the case unless the tyre manfacturer makes different tyres for each side i.e. a left side tyre and a right side tyre

Hmm, yes thats the case with non directional tyres, they are fitted correctly if they show 'outside' on the tyre wall. Although swapping them from side to side is perfectly fine, its just not something i do.

However, directional tyres are totally different, and you can only use them on one side of the car. If you have a tyre on your offside, you swap it to the near side it will then be running backwards to what it was on the other side.

So a tyre which is directional usually has V shaped groves, which are fantastic in the wet, as they filter the water away from the tyre. However if the tyre is on the wrong side the Vs will be collecting the water, with nowhere for it to go. So very dangerous!

Obviously a tyre manufacturer does not make left and right handed tyres, with directgional you dont get inside and outside, you get rotation, so its mounted to the rim in which way it will be rotating on the car

Sorry to put dunlop tyres down, but im my limited experience with them ive not found them very good at all. One of my cars had them on when i bought it, Sport 2000Es or something, a very very basic looking tyre, the grip in the dry was ok but in the wet it was awful especially when cornering, the shoulders of the tyres scrubbed off in no time, leaving lots of tread in the middle but none on the edge, with the correct pressures of course. Mainly i didnt like the wet grip, id go as far to say as i thought they were dangerous, lots of wheel spein in the wet, locking up under braking and understeer. Im no mad driver and this was on a car with only 75 bhp. I soon swapped them for some contis.

Ive also had another car with a similar model dunlop on there, it was better but the Kleber tyres which replaced them were far superior.

Maybe it was just that model of Dunlop, but i would find it difficult to go back to dunlops when i had such bad experiences with them.

red_dwarfers · Post by **red_dwarfers** » 26 Jan 2009, 20:54

I've got Goodyear Excellence on the front of mine, very pleased with them.

I've heard about all the 'good tyres on the back/front' debate and lots of people arguing about it. My rear ones arn't too bad at the moment, no degrading yet. Will definatly put some decent ones on the back when it does come to doing them.

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 26 Jan 2009, 21:49

Citroenmad wrote:Hmm, yes thats the case with non directional tyres, they are fitted correctly if they show 'outside' on the tyre wall. Although swapping them from side to side is perfectly fine, its just not something i do.

However, directional tyres are totally different, and you can only use them on one side of the car. If you have a tyre on your offside, you swap it to the near side it will then be running backwards to what it was on the other side.

So a tyre which is directional usually has V shaped groves, which are fantastic in the wet, as they filter the water away from the tyre. However if the tyre is on the wrong side the Vs will be collecting the water, with nowhere for it to go. So very dangerous!

Obviously a tyre manufacturer does not make left and right handed tyres, with directional you don't get inside and outside, you get rotation, so its mounted to the rim in which way it will be rotating on the car

Sorry to differ in opinion here but with a directional tyre it may have "outside" marked on it as well as a direction arrow, but as long as the tyre is mounted correctly on the wheel the arrow will always point in the same direction regardless of which side of the car its mounted on, the V shaped groove moves in the same direction!

Remove a wheel form the offside, put it on the nearside and the arrow/V groove still points forward, strange but true

use the spare tyre to prove it if doubtful!