Xantia hesitates...now won't start

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 25 Dec 2008, 18:05

Ok will have another go tomorrow. I'm just concerned now that there is damage to valves or pistons when it slipped. That's something I can't really afford to put right.

If it slips say one or two teeth - what's the likelihood of there being such damage? Ideally I just want to get it back into time, refit the belt, tension it up, refit everything and go.

Post by **CitroJim** » 26 Dec 2008, 17:43

What news Toby?

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 26 Dec 2008, 17:50

citrojim wrote:What news Toby?

It's timed up again, was having trouble keeping it timed until I realised that in my paranoia to not have belt too tight, it was in fact too slack. On tensioning up some more it's all timed up right again and stays that way on turning the engine. Need to go out tomorrow and make final adjustments before it can all go back together and hopefully start

Another thread I could do with your advice Jim regarding the tension - includes a video too.

http://www.frenchcarforum.co.uk/forum/v ... hp?t=25804

Thanks

Post by **CitroJim** » 26 Dec 2008, 17:54

Excellent news Toby

Toby_HDi wrote: Another thread I could do with your advice Jim regarding the tension - includes a video too.

I've just this minute replied in that thread

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 26 Dec 2008, 17:57

Thanks Jim, as said, will adjust tomorrow and will triple check everything. Hopefully if I get that far I'll start up and run with covers off for an hour as suggested and recheck tension when hot. Fingers crossed all my valves and pistons are intact.

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 27 Dec 2008, 11:41

Well, the news is not good.

I made the final adjustments this morning and have put the mount, aux belt and ECU back on, no bothered with putting everything back on as I knew I would have to put belt covers back on afterwards.

I went for the start up after checking everything. It won't start. Seems that there is some damage after all

That'll teach me to try doing my own maintainence

Not sure what to do now...

Post by **CitroJim** » 27 Dec 2008, 12:16

Toby,

Hold on before you become despondent. As I said before, the two things may be totally unconnected. You now need to go through the procedure for a non-start condition.

I'd not have thought just one tooth out on the timing would have caused harm or a non-start unles someone with far more experience of the 110HDi knows better than I.

When you first turn on the ignition, do you hear the LP pump in the tank priming? It should make a short whirring noise.

When you crank the engine, does it sound normal and does it crank at the normal speed? If so, valve damage is unlikely. If damage has occurred, the engine may well crank faster and sound wheezy or "huffy".

Have you carefully checked that all electrical connectors are in place, especially the cam position sensor or any connector you may have disturbed doing the belt.

The EM light came on when it started running roughly so a fault or faults will be stored in the ECU. A diagnostics session will be very valuable to see if a sensor has gone down.

I remain of the opinion that something has happened entirely unconnected with the belt change.

Don't let this stop you doing your own maintenance Toby.

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 27 Dec 2008, 12:53

Thanks Jim.

Sounds like the fuel pump is working.

When I crank then engine it first off all cranked slowly and wouldn't fire like there was no compression.

Now it cranks once, very slowly. Almost like the battery is dead but it can't be as it was working fine before hand and while I've been sorting belt out it's been disconnected so nothing has been draining it. This has me confused as like you say, with damaged valves it would be cranking faster?

The only connector I removed during the belt was the ECU and the battery negative. Both have been refitted. I know the cam sensor is behind the sprocket but I don't think I've disturbed it. I will check this however.

I'm not sure the EM light did come on but yes a diagnostics session would be handy as you say.

I hope your right Jim

Thanks

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 27 Dec 2008, 12:54

Thanks Jim.

Sounds like the fuel pump is working.

When I crank then engine it first off all cranked slowly and wouldn't fire like there was no compression.

Now it cranks once, very slowly. Almost like the battery is dead but it can't be as it was working fine before hand and while I've been sorting belt out it's been disconnected so nothing has been draining it. This has me confused as like you say, with damaged valves it would be cranking faster?

The only connector I removed during the belt was the ECU and the battery negative. Both have been refitted. I know the cam sensor is behind the sprocket but I don't think I've disturbed it. I will check this however.

I'm not sure the EM light did come on but yes a diagnostics session would be handy as you say.

I hope your right Jim

Am off to work now so will check things in the morning - advice beforehand greatly appreciated

Thanks

Post by **CitroJim** » 27 Dec 2008, 13:01

How did the engine feel turning it by hand on the crank pulley bolt Toby?

It should turn over easily between compressions and you should be able to feel four distinct compressions as you rotate it. If it feels notchy or about to jam that may indicate a problem.

It'll never start if only cranking slowly. Give the battery a charge despite everything and make sure all battery and earth connections are tight. It's amazing what seems to get disturbed during a major job even when you're nowhere near it. Almost sounds as if an earth has come adrift...

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 27 Dec 2008, 19:45

Yep, it felt normal on the pulley by hand. As you say four distinct compressions and easily turned between them.

I'll give the battery a charge tonight even though I cannot see how on earth it would have been drained.

Tomorrow I will check all connections and we'll go from there.

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 28 Dec 2008, 11:08

Battery has had a charge overnight and it seems it was slightly discharged, must be coming to end of it's life so thats another thing to think about.

The engine now starts but it is very very rough and dies almost immediately.
I have made a video to show what is happening though the sound is not very good as it was taken on a mobile phone.

Rough HDi

Any ideas as to whats going on? I have checked all electrical connectors and they seem to be all connected.

Thanks

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 28 Dec 2008, 11:48

Toby_HDi wrote:Any ideas as to whats going on? I have checked all electrical connectors and they seem to be all connected.

It sounds as if its running on just 1 or 2 cylinders

are you still getting white smoke out of the exhaust? What happens if you keep trying to start it?

I'll be passing Ringwood on my way to/from the "Out-Laws" one day next week so provided I talk SWMBO into it I could do a brief stop-off and give your car a Lexia session so see what the ECU 'thinks' about the situation.

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 28 Dec 2008, 11:57

I don't believe so now. If I keep trying it keeps cranking on the starter. It's the reason my battery was flat though

Thanks for your offer, I don't want to be a nuisance though

Is it possible from that video that I have air in the fuel? As when I changed the belt I disconnected some supply pipes that were clipped to the top cover (later realised that actually the BoL lives up to it's name here and it's not strictly necessary)

Thanks

Post by **CitroJim** » 28 Dec 2008, 12:34

Just seen this Toby. been out busy playing with a Lucas Diesel Pump and checking my fleet over...

I concur with Richard, only running on a couple of cylinders and diesels sound absolutely horrible when they run on less than the full complement and sound like they're going to fall to bits in a moment.

The fuel issue may be significant. It sounds like it's getting just enough and then running out. Air is unlikely to be the problem as the fuel is under pressure from the tank lift pump in the engine bay so rather than air leaks, you'd see fuel leaks.

Just a thought; when you disconnected the pipes in question, did you put them back in the correct order? Accidentially swapping supply and return could be the the cause of the problem possibly...