Very sick Xantia estate - my pride and joy please help

Citroenella · Post by **Citroenella** » 12 Dec 2008, 13:52

My beloved 1998 Xantia 1.9TD estate has developed some very wierd and worrying symptoms. I have had problems with the suspension and then I had the air conditioning pump taken off because it was siezing. All this was done by a great little guy who has now unfortunatley retired and gone away.
Now I am experiencing intermittant problems which seem to move around. On day the suspension is soft and all over the place, next the supension gets better and the steering goes heavy. A couple of times my brakes have failed completely. I have a mechanic freind who is willing to have a go, but he is at a loss. He has replaced two suspension spheres and the pressure distribution valve, but this has not helped.
Sometimes the suspension pumps up, sometimes just the front, sometimes just the rear. Sometimes it doesn't go down. Wierdest of all yesterday I parked it with the rear suspension down and when I came back later the rear suspension was up - without the engine running.
The mechanic topped up the LHM when he did the spheres and it doesn't seem to have any leaks.

Please please can anyone advise on what the problem may be, or better still, does anyone know of a Citroen Guru near to Rochdale (not Ann Street Motors 'cos he's the guy who retired)

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 12 Dec 2008, 14:21

hi Citroenella

there are some serious issues there.. A day with someone who knows what they are doing could really help with all of them I think.
I know what the brake fail feels like and it's bad... :O

Anyway, others will be much more able to help,

Best of luck
John

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 12 Dec 2008, 14:24

The ends not going up/down when they should sounds like seized height correctors, so give them a good clean (might take more than a soaking in WD40/plus gas) and lube. You want to make sure the coiled spring that's attached to the anti-roll bar is clean and lubed, not just the manual override which is attached to the long bar along the centre of the underside of the car (which is what the lever in the cabin controls).
Check the main pipes from the LHM resevoir to the hydraulic pump, they could be sucking in air.
When I inadvertnantly sliced through one and replaced it with some garden hose, my power steering was non-existant.
Turned out I hadn't tightened the new jubilee clip up on the pump end, so it was sucking in air.
Might be worth replacing the clips with jubilees as the original one on mine at the resevoir end wasn't that tight (the pipe could rotate on it's spiggot).

Sl4yer · Post by **Sl4yer** » 12 Dec 2008, 14:28

Welcome to the forum!

Don't know of any in Rochdale, but these aren't too far away:

Gauxholme in Todmorden

Savoy Garage in Burnley

I must stress that I haven't used either of these myself (yet) so I'm not recommending them.

James

dnsey · Post by **dnsey** » 12 Dec 2008, 18:20

What does the LHM look like? Sounds to me like very it could be very dirty fluid blocking valves etc, or even the wrong stuff (brake fluid?) causing rubber components to break up.

KevMayer · Post by **KevMayer** » 12 Dec 2008, 18:41

Is your suspension Hydractive. It is Hydractive if you have a button to change from soft to hard. On the mk1 Xantia its on the centre console at the front of the height setting lever. On the mk2 I believe it's on the dashboard.

Hydractive suspension would mean you may have hydractive valve problems.

If it's not hydractive then the suspension is much more basic and your problems will be easier to sort out.

Do you know if any of the other spheres have been changed. If it's hydractive you have 8 in total and they could all be flat. If it's not hydractive you'll have 6 spheres and these could be flat (excluding the two that were changed, but, even so, we'd need to know whether the correct spheres were fitted).

So, give us a bit more information to go on.

Citroenella · Post by **Citroenella** » 16 Dec 2008, 15:53

I just wanted to say thanks to all the forumites who have so kindly responded to my post and given their help and advice. Thanks to the forum I was able to get my car to an expert near my home. The guy was really helpful and knowledgeable. Unfortunately the news is not good as he said the combination of faults he found meant that it is not economic to mend the car. So the sad time has come ...

If anyone out there needs an organ donor, the engine and gearbox are superb. Body work generally very good, interior seats etc, very tidy. And I hate to say this, but she has 5 very good tyres.

Toby_HDi · Post by **Toby_HDi** » 16 Dec 2008, 16:01

Hmmm depends what's wrong with it. I'm thinking the mechanic doesn't want to go near it.

It may even be something that you can get sorted yourself. There is always lots of help available on this forum.

Don't give up yet, it seems you like the car and would be great to keep another Xantia on the road.

What did the mechanic say was wrong with it?

Old-Guy · Post by **Old-Guy** » 16 Dec 2008, 16:49

Hi Citroenella

Pity you are so far away....

Your Xantia is definitely worth saving rather than breaking. The suspension is fairly easy and not expensive for an enthusiast to sort out.

It sounds to me like nothing worse than:

1. slipping auxiliary drive belt; this drives the alternator, the air-con pump (since removed) and the all-important hydraulic pump. The hydraulic pump powers the brakes, steering and suspension. The belt must have been changed for a shorter one when the air-con pump was removed and its tension should have checked a couple of weeks later? If it's been slipping, it needs replacing (£6-7).

2. sticking height controls (the external mechanical bits not the hydraulic internals) as has been previously suggested,

3. an LHM change - needs doing every few years.

It is perfectly normal for a Xantia to rise all on its own with the engine off. This shows that the rear 'anti-sink' sphere and rear height-control are working properly.

Before you do anything rash, like selling her for peanuts or breaking, try a good session (at least 10 lots of) of Citearobics: with the engine idling, move the height control lever to maximum (rear-most position), when she has risen as far as she will go (be patient), move the lever to minimum (right forward) wait for her to settle completely, then wait a slow count of 10 - repeat. On the last cycle, use a torch to check the colour of the LHM on minimum - it should be bright green - and on maximum check that the level indicator is between the two marks on the sight glass. If necessary slowly top up the LHM (on max height with engine running) until the float is just below maximum.

If you do decide to get rid of her, PLEASE advertise her on the forum - 1.9TD Estates in good condition are much sought after. Do give exact model, mileage, service history. Someone will give her a good home and you should get more for her than on Ebay or for parts.

Post by **CitroJim** » 16 Dec 2008, 16:53

No, don't give up on her just yet. A bit of TLC and chances are all will be good again. Re-reading your first Post, it could be nothing more than a totally flat accumulator sphere. Can you hear a rapid ticking noise from the front of the engine in the vicinity of the accunmulator sphere when idling?

Then, perhaps, a good suspension overhaul by someone who knows these systems properly and all will be good. It need not be silly expensive.

As is often said on here: Better the devil you know and all that..

I'm with Toby and Guy. I'll wager the mechanic did not want to get involved. Even today, Citroen hydraulic suspension still puts the willies up most mechanics and yet, if you study it, it's not bad at all. You just need to understand it.

Besides, any other car you might get will be a massive disappointment after a good Xantia.

Homer · Post by **Homer** » 16 Dec 2008, 17:46

citrojim wrote:Re-reading your first Post, it could be nothing more than a totally flat accumulator sphere.

My thoughts exactly.

Old-Guy · Post by **Old-Guy** » 17 Dec 2008, 12:23

Citrojim wrote:

Re-reading your first Post, it could be nothing more than a totally flat accumulator sphere

Must read posts more carefully.

I missed the key fact that the accumulator sphere hadn't been changed!

Jim is of course right, a flat accumulator sphere is the most likely cause and first thing to check. One small comment, it's normal for the ticking noise to be quite rapid when the engine is first started. Once the suspension has settled, it should slow down to one tick every 30 seconds or more.

Citronella, a new sphere is £19.50 +VAT, on-line from GSF, and your mechanic friend could fit in in under an hour. Citrojim's sticky "Spheres, Hydraflush and Brake Bleeding" provides comprehensive instructions.

I'm only an amateur mechanic but I found overhauling the suspension of our '95 Xantia 1.9TD a couple of months ago surprisingly easy. All 6 spheres replaced, LHM reservoir removed emptied and cleaned, LHM filters cleaned (carefully!), reservoir replaced and re-filled, and the brakes bled. This last is important as the brake lines are long 'dead-ends' that will still contain a surprising amount of dirty old LHM (over ½ litre in total) even when the reservoir has been emptied and refilled with new LHM.

The parts cost under £150 (a complete set of 6 suspension spheres from GSF and 5L of LHM), it took me about 4 hours - being slow, careful and obsessively thorough.

Guy

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 18 Dec 2008, 10:30

[quote="Xac"]The ends not going up/down when they should sounds like seized height correctors, so give them a good clean (might take more than a soaking in WD40/plus gas) and lube. quote]

I wouldnt blame the height corrector itself, these dont ever seem to sieze, but its MORE VERY likely to be the complex unit it sits in or on that controls the height corrector... these are VERY noutorious for siezing making it look like a corrector unit...

Removing from the car makes it more viable for freeing up.. It is possible without disconnecting the pipes from the height corrector...

Who was your "specialist" that had a look??

Rgds
Paul

addo · Post by **addo** » 18 Dec 2008, 10:43

I'd say he was a specialist in snagging cheap cars to flick for a tidy profit. Big thumbs down to the fellow.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 18 Dec 2008, 12:37

hmmm yes.. nothing on the Xantia is complex to fix as far as Im concerned, come to think of it, nor on the XM, at least the XM does NOT have the stupid complex Height corrector housing like the xantia, and uses the older BX style of anti roll bar linkage... MUCH better and less siezure prone...

Paul