Series Two Xantia Radio (Clarion unit)

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 14 Nov 2008, 22:12

Just to add.....

When you read the chip it will look something like this...

FF FF 65 12 00 00 55 55 FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF
FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF FF

{65 12 = Code}

As I mentioned earlier for some reason I had to reverse the code to get it to work ...so the above code would be entered into the radio as 2156

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 15 Nov 2008, 11:24

red_dwarfers wrote:On my Clarion PU-1562A the 93c46 chip is IC204 on the underside of the radio up by the volume control wheel.

What are the markings on the chip, is it actually marked 93C46 or something else?

citroenxm wrote:Hmmmm

The two 8 legs IC's in here on the main board are 45580 JRC 8122c... BOTH have the same numbers on, and theres only a 14pin chip - so im completely lost here

Paul

What model is your radio?

red_dwarfers · Post by **red_dwarfers** » 15 Nov 2008, 17:14

My chip was actually marked 93c46 in the middle of three rows.

I had a go with the code decoding today and messed up the desoldering process. Half the pins are now without legs. Still I've got to laugh

Luckily, I wasn't planning on using my Clarion CD supporting radio as its not as original looking as a 4030 and the steering controls wouldn't work.
I'll keep it as a spare and who knows, I might get another 93c46 and reprogram it one day...

Just be uber careful when desoldering the tiny surface mounted IC. Soldering SM onto a board is easy as pie with presoldered pads but desoldering is another kettle of boiling water

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 15 Nov 2008, 19:04

red_dwarfers wrote:My chip was actually marked 93c46 in the middle of three rows.

Ahh so your chip was marked up making finding it easy...I wasn't so lucky.

red_dwarfers wrote:I had a go with the code decoding today and messed up the desoldering process. Half the pins are now without legs. Still I've got to laugh

Yeah desoldering a chip can be quite difficult....it's best to take it nice & slowly & try to get rid of as much solder as possible with a solder wick before trying to lift the chip. Then I try to get a thin scalpel blade under the chip & slowly heat the legs on one side of the chip whilst applying very slight pressure to lift the chip.

Do you mean that the legs broke off the chip or the pads where the chip sits on the circuit board lifted?

If the pins broke off the chip it's sometimes possible to scrape away some of the body of the chip then carefully solder a thin wire to the remaining stump of the leg....then you would be able to read the chip & save a dump of it to programme to a new chip.

If the pads lifted from the circuit board you can often repair these.

Maybe all is not lost if you want to spend a bit more time on the project.

Alternatively if you can get a dump of a chip from the same model of radio it may be possible to programme a chip with that then put that in your radio....the code would become that of the dump that you programmed to the chip. I'm not sure if this would work as I don't know if the chip holds any other information specific to the radio it came from.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 15 Nov 2008, 21:34

Ive found the 8 pin chip... not so sure about removing it though, so Im gonna try and get an 8 leg ROM Socket that will fit on top of it... and then connect the wires for the printer port to that...

And go from there...

THANKYOU For all your responses! I didn't expect this many replies...

Rgds
Paul

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 16 Nov 2008, 00:13

citroenxm wrote:Ive found the 8 pin chip... not so sure about removing it though, so Im gonna try and get an 8 leg ROM Socket that will fit on top of it... and then connect the wires for the printer port to that...

And go from there...

THANKYOU For all your responses! I didn't expect this many replies...

Rgds
Paul

Hi,
Not sure if you will get a result trying to read the chip in place...especially with the very basic eeprom reader that we are using!

The best way to remove a SMD (Surface Mount Device) chip is with hot air.
Most of the gas type soldering irons come with an attachment that turns the torch into a hot air tool....like this one.....
http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?Mod ... 08&U=N13AR

Basically what you do is to wave the hot air tool over the legs of the chip at the same time as applying a little pressure to the underside of the chip with a scalpel blade or similar....all of a sudden the solder holding the chip has reached its melting point & that side of the chip comes loose....then move onto the next side & do the same...eventually you will have the chip removed from the circuit board with no damage.

These modern chips can take a lot of abuse....So the temperature from the hot air shouldn't damage the chip if you take care.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 16 Nov 2008, 09:32

THATS CHEAP!

May very well be worth it!

Well, this weeks night time project then, get a practice removing chips with the blocked radios and then try it on the unknown code - non blocked radios..

gds
Paul

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 16 Nov 2008, 10:15

Hi,
If your going to try the hot air method try to find an old circuit board with chips on it so you can get some practice in before attempting your radio.
Look around for an old TV / Radio / DVD player or something that you can get the circuit board from.....there will be loads available at the local tip.

ALDI were recently were selling a gas powered soldering iron that had a hot air attachment ....if you have a store near you it may be worth a visit as things like this don't often sell out & they may still have them on sale....I think our local store has.

http://www.aldi.co.uk/uk/html/offers/2867_7490.htm

By the way, what markings does your chip have on it?

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 16 Nov 2008, 21:12

Hi.. the chip has got the following: 85AD then 93C46 then TEM8

Paul

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 17 Nov 2008, 19:17

Hmm.....the chip in the radio that I done wasn't marked as a 93C46...it made the job that bit more difficult as I didn't know if I had the correct chip until I asked on an electronics forum.

At least you know you have the right chip.

How you getting on?

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 17 Nov 2008, 21:51

Ah... um, left my radio in work today, so not done anything tonight!

Paul

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 19 Nov 2008, 21:15

uncle buck wrote:
red_dwarfers wrote: ....The Clarion units are a different kettle of fish and have the code stored on a little 8 legged 93C46 EPROM inside the radio. The only way of getting the code for these radios is building your own interface to a PC 8) (or of course paying someone big money to decode it for you)
I will get around to building one at some point in the next couple of months and seeing what magic I can make!
Hi,
A few years ago I removed the EEPROM from my mates radio & read it to get the code....it wasn't that hard to do & it was an interesting challenge.

The programme I used to read the chip needed nothing more than a printer port on the PC....wires were soldered to the legs of the EEPROM & then connected straight into the printer port.

The programme read the chip & I got the code (Example 1234)....the chip was then replaced back into the radio & the radio put back together....powered the radio up & waited until it was ready to accept the code (approx 2 hour wait if I remember correctly) then entered the code....1234 ...it didn't work....after another 2 hours wait I re-entered the code but reversed it (4321) & bingo it worked....the radio was up & running

To be honest I set about reading the chip more as a challenge than anything else & my mate wasn't bothered if the radio survived my medlings, so I had nothing to loose....I often feel when you have this attitude things have an uncanny way of working out!

Here's a link to the simple programme I used to read the chip..
http://www.rampantapathy.co.uk/download ... /93c46.zip

If any of you are going to have a go at removing & reading the chip I'll try to help the best I can....but I'm no expert.

Cheers.

What OS does the Port reader work with? Do I need 98, 2000 or XP??

Ive found a printer lead - yes a parrallel one remember them!? - and worked out which wire isfor which pin, and soldered a chip to the wires for the appropriate pins, but the program wont read and give me an output....

Any ideas??

Paul

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 20 Nov 2008, 00:30

citroenxm wrote: What OS does the Port reader work with? Do I need 98, 2000 or XP??

I think I was running Windows ME at the time I read the chip as it was a few years ago.....98 should work ok as I believe ME was just a slightly modernised version of 98.

Ive found a printer lead - yes a parrallel one remember them!? - and worked out which wire isfor which pin, and soldered a chip to the wires for the appropriate pins, but the program wont read and give me an output....

Have you remembered that the chip is rotated?

I believe the connections I used were…

93c46__________________ Printer port
1 Not connected
2 ------------------------------------- pin 5
3 ------------------------------------- pin 3
4 ------------------------------------- pin 2
5 ------------------------------------- pin 4
6 ------------------------------------- pin 10
7 ------------------------------------- pin 25
8 ------------------------------------- pin 5

Note that pin 2 and 8 of the chip connect to pin 5 of the printer port....I’m not 100% sure if this is correct....try without pin 8 connected first, if you don’t get a reading then try both connected

I wrote these connection down when I done my mates radio but it’s a few years ago & notes that made sense then are confusing now!

Good luck, let me know what happens.

Cheers.

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 20 Nov 2008, 12:36

Ahhh, now theres different conections there now... in the text file with the reader program, it says that Pin one IS connected to the port, were as above you have not... Ill try those connections tonight and let you know what happens now....

Pin one is at the DIMPLE edge of the chip, I also did a Google on the chip number to confirm that its
1.... 8
2.... 7
3.... 6
4.... 5

type layout, and I was correct...

Thanks
Paul

uncle buck · Post by **uncle buck** » 20 Nov 2008, 13:12

citroenxm wrote:Ahhh, now theres different conections there now... in the text file with the reader program, it says that Pin one IS connected to the port, were as above you have not... Ill try those connections tonight and let you know what happens now....

Pin one is at the DIMPLE edge of the chip, I also did a Google on the chip number to confirm that its
1.... 8
2.... 7
3.... 6
4.... 5

type layout, and I was correct...

Thanks
Paul

Hi Paul,
Yeah the chip leg layout you have is correct.

The text file with the reader program does show pin 1 connected but that is for a chip that is not rotated !

The surface mount chip that is fitted to the radio is rotated, which basically means the function of the legs of the chip are in different places to that of a standard chip....take a look at the diagram below to see what I mean.

Working from the diagram above & the text file with the reader program you will see that the connections in my previous post work out 8)

Good luck & keep me posted.

Cheers.