ZX 1.4 camshaft/timing lost
Moderator: RichardW
ZX 1.4 camshaft/timing lost
Hi,
Just been reading MikeT's post about setting the timing - this appears to relate to the XUD - does it apply broadly to the TU(less IP timing etc)?
If I understand correctly, if I line the camshaft sprocket with the cyl head hole, and the flywheel hole (are there more than one on the 1.4 TU?) I should be OK?
Can it be 180° out? - I thought it was set up OK, but appear not to be as it came to a stop (gently but firmly) when turning it over with a spanner. I've now taken the plugs out to make turning it easier but hunger, bad light and shortness of patience ended the days play.
Also, just to check - am I correct in thinking that the belt/sprockets rotate clockwise when looking at them, so the belt travels downwards on the straight/front run from the cam sprocket to the crank sprocket?
Cheers,
Jonathan
Just been reading MikeT's post about setting the timing - this appears to relate to the XUD - does it apply broadly to the TU(less IP timing etc)?
If I understand correctly, if I line the camshaft sprocket with the cyl head hole, and the flywheel hole (are there more than one on the 1.4 TU?) I should be OK?
Can it be 180° out? - I thought it was set up OK, but appear not to be as it came to a stop (gently but firmly) when turning it over with a spanner. I've now taken the plugs out to make turning it easier but hunger, bad light and shortness of patience ended the days play.
Also, just to check - am I correct in thinking that the belt/sprockets rotate clockwise when looking at them, so the belt travels downwards on the straight/front run from the cam sprocket to the crank sprocket?
Cheers,
Jonathan
If Stupidity got us into this mess, then why can’t it get us out?
51 Clio 1.2, 01 Avensis
51 Clio 1.2, 01 Avensis
there is only one locking hole in the cam sprocket, not sure if there is more than one in flywheel, but if it was 180° out the engine would not run at all,
and yes the cam belt dose rotate clockwise when running,
also when setting up to check/lock the timming you must only rotate in the normal running direction, if you go past the timming point you can turn back as long as you go back past the timming point, then bring it up clockwise last before locking off
regards malcolm
and yes the cam belt dose rotate clockwise when running,
also when setting up to check/lock the timming you must only rotate in the normal running direction, if you go past the timming point you can turn back as long as you go back past the timming point, then bring it up clockwise last before locking off
regards malcolm
- CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
- Posts: 49620
- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- Location: Paggers
- My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
- x 6182
- Contact:
The last TU I did a cambelt on, it had FOUR holes in the flywheel, 90 degrees apartcitronut wrote:there is only one locking hole in the cam sprocket, not sure if there is more than one in flywheel, but if it was 180° out the engine would not run at all,
The owner thought he'd "help" me by whipping off the old belt and lost timing in the process
I had to time it from scratch...
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
I did this to check whether the tensioner was OK or whether I'd need to add one to my GSF order. Put the locking bolts in an'all, but engine was moved from here to there due to lack of space so I'm guessing one fell out. Or maybe fell back in when hand-cranking the engine. Ho hum. Haven't done a timing belt for a few years so a bit rusty.TBONE wrote:and that's where people go wrong by removing the belt before setting things up then you have to remove the crank pulley to line the bottom end up to TDC
Cheers for the nuggets of info.
Jonathan
If Stupidity got us into this mess, then why can’t it get us out?
51 Clio 1.2, 01 Avensis
51 Clio 1.2, 01 Avensis
-
- Posts: 591
- Joined: 10 Jan 2008, 19:53
- Location: UK - North east
- My Cars:
- x 5
If you've lost the timing because the belt has been removed & the flywheel has more than 1 locating hole in it, just remove the spark plug from #1 cylinder (Flywheel end of the engine I believe) & carefully insert a long screwdriver through the hole until it touches the top of the piston....now slowly & carefully turn the engine over...the screwdriver will show when the piston is at the top of its stroke....now by turning the engine back & forth a little you will find the correct flywheel hole for the pin to go in to.
As you are doing the above you may find that the engine will stop & not turn any further....at this point you will have to rotate the camshaft to move the valves...sometimes you may have to turn the engine backwards a little to allow the camshaft to turn....just go slowly & carefully & feel your way until #1 piston is at TDC (Top Dead Center).
Now turn the camshaft until the timing pin can be inserted...you may have to turn the engine backwards a little to drop the pistons a little to allow the camshaft to open the valves without them contacting the pistons....don't forget to remove the flywheel pin if you have to do this.
Good luck.
As you are doing the above you may find that the engine will stop & not turn any further....at this point you will have to rotate the camshaft to move the valves...sometimes you may have to turn the engine backwards a little to allow the camshaft to turn....just go slowly & carefully & feel your way until #1 piston is at TDC (Top Dead Center).
Now turn the camshaft until the timing pin can be inserted...you may have to turn the engine backwards a little to drop the pistons a little to allow the camshaft to open the valves without them contacting the pistons....don't forget to remove the flywheel pin if you have to do this.
Good luck.
2006 C4 1.6 HDi 16V (92) non FAP
2001 Xsara II 1.4 LX
2001 Renault Laguna II 1.9dCi Sport Tourer
2001 Xsara II 1.4 LX
2001 Renault Laguna II 1.9dCi Sport Tourer
Half term is over, so back to the fununcle buck wrote:....carefully insert a long screwdriver through the hole until it touches the top of the piston....now slowly & carefully turn the engine over...the screwdriver will show when the piston is at the top of its stroke....now by turning the engine back & forth a little you will find the correct flywheel hole for the pin to go in to.
Cheers for this Uncle Buck - in a 4 stroke, does the piston not reach TDC twice - on compression & exhaust strokes? If so, without taking the rocker cover off, is there an external sign that the engine is on compression, or I'll end up 180° out? Is this a trial & error thing?
Presumably if it's 180° out, the valves are safe, and the risk is @ 90° out?
The engine is huffing & farting but not quite firing (spark @ all plugs), but definitely no valve contact.
No guarantee the replacement engine isn't shagged though, but I'll rule this out for now....
Cheers
Jonathan
If Stupidity got us into this mess, then why can’t it get us out?
51 Clio 1.2, 01 Avensis
51 Clio 1.2, 01 Avensis
this isn't a difficult one, if the pin is in the fly wheel regardless of how many holes there are ( piston number 1 will be at TDC ) so if the piston is any where else then the pin is in the wrong hole on the flywheel, check you have the firing order on the plug leads correct 1-3-4-2 ( 1 being near the tranny ) distributor rotates anticlockwise and this is how they are marked up
4---3
--2---1
spark plugs cylinder head 4-3-2-1-tranny
I hope that helps
4---3
--2---1
spark plugs cylinder head 4-3-2-1-tranny
I hope that helps
-
- Posts: 591
- Joined: 10 Jan 2008, 19:53
- Location: UK - North east
- My Cars:
- x 5
Yes it does reach TDC twice....but the pin will only go into the flywheel in one of the TDC positions.....use the screwdriver method along with the pin into the flywheel & it will be correct....then you know the bottom end is timed up & all you have to do is set the camshaft with the pin & bingo the timing will be correct.UserError wrote:....in a 4 stroke, does the piston not reach TDC twice - on compression & exhaust strokes? If so, without taking the rocker cover off, is there an external sign that the engine is on compression, or I'll end up 180° out? Is this a trial & error thing?....
2006 C4 1.6 HDi 16V (92) non FAP
2001 Xsara II 1.4 LX
2001 Renault Laguna II 1.9dCi Sport Tourer
2001 Xsara II 1.4 LX
2001 Renault Laguna II 1.9dCi Sport Tourer
as uncle buck says with No.1 piston at the top of its stroke and both the flywheel and cam sprocket peged off, then you know the cam timming is correct,
as it is in reality the cam which governs the inlet and exhaust strokes, as the cam rotates once for every two full realousionons of the cranck
so if they are both peged corectly i would sudgest you have an ignition or induction fault
regards malcolm
as it is in reality the cam which governs the inlet and exhaust strokes, as the cam rotates once for every two full realousionons of the cranck
so if they are both peged corectly i would sudgest you have an ignition or induction fault
regards malcolm
ZX 1.4 i timing/ignition
Went through the procedures that you all suggested & after much messing around with HT leads, got the thing running.
The problem turned out to be the order of the HT leads on the box (presumably part of the distributor assembly) at the transmission end of the cylinder head.
I arranged them
4---3
2---1
but that didn't work.
I tried another variation
4---1
3---1
gleaned from elsewhere, but after many permutations,
Finally, I randomly swapped 2 & 3 & it fired up on
4---1
2---3
Sounds reasonable runnning, I think, given all that it's been through.
Many thanks to everyone who took the time to offer advice, I appreciate it and am now heartily relieved that I have not been wasting my time on a dud engine!
Nearly back on the road - just a few piddly things, oh and the dashboard bulbs to do now....
Cheers
Jonathan
The problem turned out to be the order of the HT leads on the box (presumably part of the distributor assembly) at the transmission end of the cylinder head.
I arranged them
4---3
2---1
but that didn't work.
I tried another variation
4---1
3---1
gleaned from elsewhere, but after many permutations,
Finally, I randomly swapped 2 & 3 & it fired up on
4---1
2---3
Sounds reasonable runnning, I think, given all that it's been through.
Many thanks to everyone who took the time to offer advice, I appreciate it and am now heartily relieved that I have not been wasting my time on a dud engine!
Nearly back on the road - just a few piddly things, oh and the dashboard bulbs to do now....
Cheers
Jonathan
If Stupidity got us into this mess, then why can’t it get us out?
51 Clio 1.2, 01 Avensis
51 Clio 1.2, 01 Avensis