xantia head gasket

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fangy
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xantia head gasket

Post by fangy »

Hi, a while ago my Xantia started overheating, then blowing blue smoke.We gave it to a local guy who fixes citroen's,after he stripped it down he said the cylinder head was cracked and managed to get one second hand, when he put the engine back together, he tried to start it but it wouldn't start and it was making a hissing noise from the valves, so he stripped it down again and found two of the valves where bent and not closing properly. Another rebuild and a couple of weeks later, he turns up at the house with the car, still pouring water and blowing blue smoke and leaking either oil or diesel going by the huge rainbow stain out in the street, saying that the original overheating problem must have cracked the block. Has anyone ever heard of 19td engines cracking the block because of overheating? Or could this be his excuse for a job done badly?
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Fangy.
Last edited by fangy on 19 Sep 2008, 14:06, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by jgra1 »

Fangy I have a spare block, not that that's what you want to hear now :(
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Post by MikeT »

How did he bend the valves? Hopefully your block and head is ok, you just need a competent mechanic IMO.
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Post by fangy »

I'm not sure if I need a block yet. It depends if it's cracked or not. But if it turns out i do i'll give to a shout.

"How did he bend the valves? Hopefully your block and head is ok, you just need a competent mechanic IMO."

He says he left the head sitting up on it's end when he was going home and in the morning it was lying flat on the floor, the cam shaft was on so some of the valves where open, but at the time he didn't realise the head had fell over thats why he went ahead with the rebuild.

Have you ever heard of a block cracking because of overheating? When it first overheat we pulled in almost straight away and got the AA to take it home.
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Post by jgra1 »

Have you ever heard of a block cracking because of overheating
no, to be honest...

scary that he went ahead with rebuild after that drop too...
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Post by Xaccers »

I've not heard of a block going, heads warping yes, even melting out through the exhast valves (as citrojim and I found on a scrapped 406).

Do you know for certain if he got the replacement head skimmed, especially after letting it fall over?
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Post by fangy »

I didn't think the block would crack, but i was wanting a second opinion before i have it out with him. I don't know if he skimmed the head after it fell over, I've got my doubts though, cause he said he got it skimmed just after he pick it up from the scrappy then it was left over night when it fell over, but he didn't mention anything about it getting skimmed again. He just said he rebuilt it then had to strip it down to change the two bent valves.
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Post by Xaccers »

I'm by no means an expert, I've just never heard of one going, likewise with the valves, they're verticle so I'm not sure how likely the head falling over and bending them would be. In most cases when the cam belt goes on a XUD9TE the pistons hit the valves, don't bend them, but break the cam. Not sure what the head falling through an arc would do though.

As it's doing with you, this is making my spider sense tingle. Something doesn't sound right.
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Post by MikeT »

What sort of diagnosis was done to determine a cracked head but managed to overlook a cracked block? Sounds a little dubious, don't you think?
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Post by CitroJim »

fangy wrote: He says he left the head sitting up on it's end when he was going home and in the morning it was lying flat on the floor, the cam shaft was on so some of the valves where open, but at the time he didn't realise the head had fell over thats why he went ahead with the rebuild.
That is carelessness of the highest order. You NEVER leave a heavy item like that resting on end :evil: A fall from vertical onto open valves will indeed bend them.. And it would have needed another light skim to correct any dings resulting from the fall as well as replacemet valves.

As for an iron block cracking, highly unlikely. Alloy possibly but not iron.

The head shoukd be salvagable but all valves will need checking for trueness and it'll ned skimming again. The leak is most likely oil , either from head face damage when it fell or from the outer cam caps that must be sealed to be oil-tight.
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Post by fangy »

Ye, I think there's something dodgy going on. He took the car back up to his workshop today (i was at work, it was the wife that was in) I've to go up tomorrow to pick it up and pay him, don't know what he's going to ask for, but I'm not prepared to pay him his original quote. I'm going to tackle it myself, might as well as it is it's knackered, I've been looking over the manual,seems like a bit of a nightmare, does as much need stripped of the engine to get the head off as it says?
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Post by CitroJim »

To be honest Fangy, the job of replacing a head gasket looks far worse than it actually is. There are a few of us on here with experience of the job and will happily guide you every step of the way. The job is more time consuming than outright difficult and hugely satisfying when done.

A few bits are fiddly. MikeT's blog makes a good read for the issues you'll meet.

Even now, after all these years, there is still something immensely satisfying about doing major engine work, turning the key and hearing the engine purr :D

You have a bit of an advantage as the head had been off very recently and you know nothing will be seized.

I trust you can come to a good amicable agreement with the garage and that not too much money will need to change hands over it.

Keep us posted please.
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Post by citronut »

these engines can suffer with bent valves from piston/valve contact, you might find if he had a lot skimed of the head face, and did not sink the valves in to there correct depth, they did/will contact the pistons, or he even got the belt timming out the first time around,

regards malcolm
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Post by fangy »

Well, got the car back today, the guy wasn't about so we left a note and brought the car back with the spare key,on first inspection apart from the bill lying on the passenger seat for £250, it's leaking oil from everywhere,even though the car wasn't leaking oil when it left. the rocker cover gasket, a round casing on the side of the head,opposite side from the cam sprocket, there's oil dripping of the sump and from underneath the front valance at the front right corner,don't know where that ones from. The round plastic fuel filter housings leaking (I think it's the filter), and the waters still hissing out of the expansion tank.

I started stripping it, when i took off the pipes from the turbo they had a lot of oil in them, the one that goes to the air filter box and the one that comes down the center of the engine and into the intercooler. Should they have oil in them? What would cause this, is it just part of a blown gasket? I think when I changed the radiator these pipes where dry, but I couldn't say for sure. Could someone tell me where I can buy the kit to lock up the timing marks?
Thanks,
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Post by CitroJim »

Gosh, what a mess Fangy, The round thing on the end of the head is the vacuum pump and has full oil pressure in it and sealed by two O rings and easily damaged.

The intercooler and turbo piping will be oily as the engine crankcase breater exists into it so there is always an oil mist present. The quantity of oil can look worryingly large but in fact it's just condensate and nothing at all to be concerned about.

To lock the engine on the timing marks, all you need is three M8 bolts of about 50mm in length for the cam and pump sprockets and a lenght of kunifer brake pipe of around a foot long to slip into the flywheel timing hole behind the starter. You can buy a pukka kit but it's never worth it. The advantage of the kunifer (copper) brake pipe to lock the flywheel is that it's flexible and can be bent into the right shape to wriggle into the hole.

They owe you £250 for messing your car up. You must have some sort of recourse? Surely they cannot get away with the shockingly shoddy job they've done.
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