I have a 2002 xsara 2.0hdi sx and have been told the hp pump is on its way out.Does anyone have any ideas on a good company dealing in refurbs or new supplied.
Please help it is driving me bonkers!!!!
Cheers
Alan
xsara high pressure pump
Moderator: RichardW
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chelseaalan
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 09 Aug 2008, 10:16
- Location:
- My Cars:
HP Pump xsara
Hi Nick,
the info came from the RAC. The car was starting first time every time then decided it didn't want to start.Sometimes starting on 2-3 attempts.One morning it wouldn't start so along came the RAC.The guy hooked up the computer and said the fault was the pump as it need 200 lbs of pressure to start and was only giving 170.He sarted it using easystart,it took a tiny squirt and I have had to do this every morning since.
Now instead of the car needing a squirt only first thing and then starting ok after that it now sometimes needs easystart even if I try restarting after a run so whatever it is it is getting worse.
If you have any ideas mate I would be grateful.
Alan
the info came from the RAC. The car was starting first time every time then decided it didn't want to start.Sometimes starting on 2-3 attempts.One morning it wouldn't start so along came the RAC.The guy hooked up the computer and said the fault was the pump as it need 200 lbs of pressure to start and was only giving 170.He sarted it using easystart,it took a tiny squirt and I have had to do this every morning since.
Now instead of the car needing a squirt only first thing and then starting ok after that it now sometimes needs easystart even if I try restarting after a run so whatever it is it is getting worse.
If you have any ideas mate I would be grateful.
Alan
I don't claim to be a common rail expert (!) but I don't think the pump can necessarily be condemned just because the pressure in the fuel rail is low.
The fact that this came on all of a sudden is odd. Have you checked inside the fuel filter housing to see if there are any metal filings in the bottom? When the pumps pack up on these they often tend to distribute metal swarf around the fuel system.
If there is, test the metal filings with a magnet. The metal in the tank lift pump is non-ferrous, whereas the high pressure pump is ferrous and the bits should stick to a magnet.
The fact that this came on all of a sudden is odd. Have you checked inside the fuel filter housing to see if there are any metal filings in the bottom? When the pumps pack up on these they often tend to distribute metal swarf around the fuel system.
If there is, test the metal filings with a magnet. The metal in the tank lift pump is non-ferrous, whereas the high pressure pump is ferrous and the bits should stick to a magnet.
I would be more inclined to suspect the pump in the fuel tank.
As most know this is a common HDI problem.
Next time it fails to start, try this simple test. First switch on the ignition and listen, can you hear a buzz from under the rear seats? It will only last for a few seconds, this is the electric pump priming the system.
If it does not buzz then switch off and lay on the ground by the rear door and look at the bottem of the fuel tank, you will see a circular lump in the tank, slap this lump hard a couple of times with the palm of your hand, then go back and try for the buzz again.
If this tank slap procedure starts your car, then best go and get yourself another pump for the tank.
Is it a piccasso? If it is you will have to remove the exhaust and handbrake cables to get the tank out as their is no hole under the seat for access.
Regards
Martin.
As most know this is a common HDI problem.
Next time it fails to start, try this simple test. First switch on the ignition and listen, can you hear a buzz from under the rear seats? It will only last for a few seconds, this is the electric pump priming the system.
If it does not buzz then switch off and lay on the ground by the rear door and look at the bottem of the fuel tank, you will see a circular lump in the tank, slap this lump hard a couple of times with the palm of your hand, then go back and try for the buzz again.
If this tank slap procedure starts your car, then best go and get yourself another pump for the tank.
Is it a piccasso? If it is you will have to remove the exhaust and handbrake cables to get the tank out as their is no hole under the seat for access.
Regards
Martin.
Hi Nick.
Well as you know my thing is hydraulics, but as I understand it, the pump in the tank for the HDI engine is simply a priming device to get the thing pressured up to the high pressure belt driven pump, this high pressure pump cannot get working as the old fashioned pumps do without being primed, once the car has started, it will run quite happy without the electric pump running.
BUT.............................
I could be wrong?????
Regards
Martin.
Well as you know my thing is hydraulics, but as I understand it, the pump in the tank for the HDI engine is simply a priming device to get the thing pressured up to the high pressure belt driven pump, this high pressure pump cannot get working as the old fashioned pumps do without being primed, once the car has started, it will run quite happy without the electric pump running.
BUT.............................
I could be wrong?????
Regards
Martin.
Martin,
You could be right, but I thought the tank pump on mine runs all the time the engine is running. I know if I'm stood near the back of the car when its on tickover there is a slight high pitched whining from somewhere near the rear which I'd assumed was the tank lift pump running.....
I might check tomorrow if I get the chance!
You could be right, but I thought the tank pump on mine runs all the time the engine is running. I know if I'm stood near the back of the car when its on tickover there is a slight high pitched whining from somewhere near the rear which I'd assumed was the tank lift pump running.....
I might check tomorrow if I get the chance!
Many electric fuel injection pumps only run for a short time when the ignition is turned on or the engine is being started - they then cut out. This is a safety device - if there is a leak you don't want the thing pumping fuel continuously at 36 psi or more.
The details of the pumping may vary - the overall effect is probably the same
The details of the pumping may vary - the overall effect is probably the same
jeremy
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chelseaalan
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 09 Aug 2008, 10:16
- Location:
- My Cars:
HP Pump
Thanks Guys,
you have given me some idea's here.
The car is a xsara hatch 110hp and after I strted it using easy start it would run all day as normal starting each time it is only the last couple of days that it turns and turns before starting.
To complicate the situation check this out!!!!!!
The week the RAC said the pump was faulty I was due to travel in the car on holiday so after checking the 'Berakdown cover ' was up to date I set off with the usual squirt of easy start.
After two and a half weeks and 2000 miles to Spain and back the car started first time every time.Even after being left for a day or two,
The first day back yes you guessed it back to the easy start.
This is your mission should you wish to accept it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers
Alan
you have given me some idea's here.
The car is a xsara hatch 110hp and after I strted it using easy start it would run all day as normal starting each time it is only the last couple of days that it turns and turns before starting.
To complicate the situation check this out!!!!!!
The week the RAC said the pump was faulty I was due to travel in the car on holiday so after checking the 'Berakdown cover ' was up to date I set off with the usual squirt of easy start.
After two and a half weeks and 2000 miles to Spain and back the car started first time every time.Even after being left for a day or two,
The first day back yes you guessed it back to the easy start.
This is your mission should you wish to accept it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Cheers
Alan
Re: HP Pump
chelseaalan wrote:The week the RAC said the pump was faulty I was due to travel in the car on holiday so after checking the 'Berakdown cover ' was up to date I set off with the usual squirt of easy start.
After two and a half weeks and 2000 miles to Spain and back the car started first time every time.Even after being left for a day or two,
The first day back yes you guessed it back to the easy start.
You should have sold the car to someone in Spain!Is it temperature related, does the engine get noticeably easier to start the warmer the weather?
Just to confirm, I've looked at the low pressure lift pump on mine just now and it does indeed run all the time the engine is running. What may be causing confusion is that if you turn the key to the ignition position and leave it there the pump runs for a few seconds then cuts out. If you then start the engine the electric pump starts up again and runs continuously until the engine is switched off.
Jeremy, I appreciate what you are saying about the undesirability of having an electric fuel pump running continuously, but nevertheless this is how many petrol efi systems work. There was someone on another forum recently complaining that the fuel filter at the rear of his petrol Citroen had rusted through and sprung a leak, emptying the entire contents of the tank over the road during a 5 mile journey
This is why manufacturers began fitting inertia cutoff switches to the fuel pump supply to turn the pump off in a crash.
Going back to the original problem I'm wondering if the cause is perhaps not the high pressure pump itself, but the pressure regulator on the back of the pump. These can stick, or sometimes suffer from the rubber o-rings inside splitting, and when faulty can be very sensitive to changes in fuel viscosity and temperature.
Jeremy, I appreciate what you are saying about the undesirability of having an electric fuel pump running continuously, but nevertheless this is how many petrol efi systems work. There was someone on another forum recently complaining that the fuel filter at the rear of his petrol Citroen had rusted through and sprung a leak, emptying the entire contents of the tank over the road during a 5 mile journey
This is why manufacturers began fitting inertia cutoff switches to the fuel pump supply to turn the pump off in a crash.
Going back to the original problem I'm wondering if the cause is perhaps not the high pressure pump itself, but the pressure regulator on the back of the pump. These can stick, or sometimes suffer from the rubber o-rings inside splitting, and when faulty can be very sensitive to changes in fuel viscosity and temperature.
Check when the car doesent start if the LP pump primes up, if this is the faul usually giving the pump a bang will get it going temporarily.
Your right it could be the regulator on the back of the pump, it may be worth taking it off & checking the O rings and checking for swarf, I would not however even think about replacing the regulator seperately, it would be false economy as the regulator is about half the price of the full pump then you will probably find out later it needs a full new pump.
Another common cause of loss of high pressure at the rail is faulty injectors, they stick & cause the fuel to go straight out the return so it cant build up the 110 bar requred to start it. you need to carry out a fuel return check on the injectors to try & determine if one is faulty.
Your right it could be the regulator on the back of the pump, it may be worth taking it off & checking the O rings and checking for swarf, I would not however even think about replacing the regulator seperately, it would be false economy as the regulator is about half the price of the full pump then you will probably find out later it needs a full new pump.
Another common cause of loss of high pressure at the rail is faulty injectors, they stick & cause the fuel to go straight out the return so it cant build up the 110 bar requred to start it. you need to carry out a fuel return check on the injectors to try & determine if one is faulty.
OK I have checked this out today.
I have been doing the spheres on a friends Xantia HDI. (why have all my mates bought Xantia's)
After the spheres I had a play with the ignition and pump thingy, the proccess seems to go like this.
Turn on the ignition and the pump will buzz for about 3 secs, or untill it has built up full pressure to the filter, when the engine starts, the pump will start running again to keep the pressure up to the main high pressure pump, this electric pump will keep on cutting in and out whilst the car is running just to keep pressure up, BUT, if you dissconect the electric pump whilst the engine is running, it will keep on going.
This tells me that as long as the electric pump primes the system at start up, the engine will start and run fine all day long.
But as stated before, I could be wrong.............
Personally I would still suspect this pump as they seem to be such a common problem with the HDI systems.
Have you done the tank slap test yet??
Regards
Martin.
I have been doing the spheres on a friends Xantia HDI. (why have all my mates bought Xantia's)
After the spheres I had a play with the ignition and pump thingy, the proccess seems to go like this.
Turn on the ignition and the pump will buzz for about 3 secs, or untill it has built up full pressure to the filter, when the engine starts, the pump will start running again to keep the pressure up to the main high pressure pump, this electric pump will keep on cutting in and out whilst the car is running just to keep pressure up, BUT, if you dissconect the electric pump whilst the engine is running, it will keep on going.
This tells me that as long as the electric pump primes the system at start up, the engine will start and run fine all day long.
But as stated before, I could be wrong.............
Personally I would still suspect this pump as they seem to be such a common problem with the HDI systems.
Have you done the tank slap test yet??
Regards
Martin.
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chelseaalan
- Posts: 9
- Joined: 09 Aug 2008, 10:16
- Location:
- My Cars:
Xsara HP Pump
Hi Martin,
I have lifted up the back seat and switched on the ignition and I can hear the fuel pump 'humming' so I suppose this means that the pump in the tank is ok.
Regards
Alan
I have lifted up the back seat and switched on the ignition and I can hear the fuel pump 'humming' so I suppose this means that the pump in the tank is ok.
Regards
Alan