Spheres. LHM, Brakes done!! but.....

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
Toby_HDi
Posts: 1354
Joined: 05 Jan 2008, 21:31
Location: Malvern, Worcestershire
My Cars:
x 3

Spheres. LHM, Brakes done!! but.....

Post by Toby_HDi »

Right, I changed the spheres, changed the LHM for Hydraflush and (tried to) bled the brakes.

I followed Jim's instructions step by step. However, on taking the car out for a run it doesn't feel right, not sure if this is me or not. I can't explain how it feels other than not right. Also I believe I may have been supplied the wrong size pipe seal. It was a very tight fit compared to the old one and I wonder if it's a 3.5mm. I have fitted it so if this is the smaller one will it cause any problems? There is no leaking as far as I can see.

The brakes were a nightmare. I couldn't get any clear Hydraflush out and when I returned to the reservoir it was low as anything. I ran out of hydraflush so have topped it up with LHM. Thinking I will have to swap it again using just hydraflush.

The brakes now have air in them. They don't work when you press the pedal but do so a second later.

Whats happened!!??

Thanks
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49526
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6160
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

Hi Toby,

You'll not see clear Hydraflush come out as it immediately discolours as it mixes with the residual LHM in the system.

You still have air in the brake lines.

Do lots and lots and lots of Citarobics and then bleed again, keeping the pedal pressed at all times with the engine running and the tube from the nipple dipped in the jar. If you release the pedal with any nipples open there is a risk of air being sucked back in.

The rear brakes need to have a fair amount of LHM bled out of them as the lines are nearly twice as long as the car.

After lots of Citarobics and another bleed, all will be fine!

How does the suspension feel now Toby and how long is the accumulator tick rate?


As long as the 3.5mm seal is not leaking, no worries. They are a tight fit on the pipe in any case, hence the need to lubricate them on with a spot of LHM. :D
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Toby_HDi
Posts: 1354
Joined: 05 Jan 2008, 21:31
Location: Malvern, Worcestershire
My Cars:
x 3

Post by Toby_HDi »

Ok will buy some more hydraflush and do another change then will bleed again. I gave up and didn't do the rears. When they are applied, at the moment there is a delay and when I remove my foot they make all sorts of creaking noises too. Is this just the pads sticking on due to the air?

It feels odd, but not in a good way. I'm not sure how to explain it? The tick rate I believe is better, forgot to test that.

Also, the front moves up in steps rather than smoothly? Have I got sticky struts?

Thanks
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49526
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6160
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

Air can make funny noises Toby..

You MUST do the rears. they're the ones that become aireated the worst. Fronts generally get very little air in them but the rears are a different matter. It is critical to bleed those very carefully and thoroughly...

You'll see huge gulps of air come out almost as soon as you open the nipples!

Forgot to say Toby, well done on getting it all done, top work :D
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Toby_HDi
Posts: 1354
Joined: 05 Jan 2008, 21:31
Location: Malvern, Worcestershire
My Cars:
x 3

Post by Toby_HDi »

Thanks Jim, just wondered if the spheres have been put on wrong or something. It just doesn't feel right

Could the front going up in steps be sticky struts?

The rears haven't been touched today but the brakes were working so I have managed to get air in the fronts.

Will a mixture of hydraflush and LHM be a problem or should I really get some more hydraflush and change it again?
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49526
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6160
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

Yes, the front going up in jerks is sticky struts. easy to sort, on high, pull down the gaiters (no need to remove wheels) and clean the exposed piston rods, apply some grease (Castrol LM is OK) and all will be fine. You can use LHM but it won't last long. They'll also creak like mad as well so there is the answer to two questions :D

The front struts are the only bit of the hydraulics not lubricated by deliberate LHM leakage, hence they stick and bind after a while.

No worries about mixing LHM and Hydraflush and so long as you've not lost a lot of hydraflush, it'll still be effective.

How dirty were the filters in the LHM reservoir?
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Toby_HDi
Posts: 1354
Joined: 05 Jan 2008, 21:31
Location: Malvern, Worcestershire
My Cars:
x 3

Post by Toby_HDi »

Ok thanks for that Jim

Can you buy hydraflush in containers less than 5l?

They were filthy, nice and clean now :D

Just been out on a tentative run. I reckon I can use the word 'loose' to describe the feel of the car now. I expected it to be tighter?

Tick rate is longer than 1min, sat listening for a tick for a min and didn't hear one (didn't hang around as my tea was getting cold :lol:)
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

how hard was the ride before the sphere change, may be the car is ridding how it should now, nice and soft/smooth

and what happend to the rest of the first 5lt can of hydraflush, as i dont usualy get through a full can on one car

regards malcolm
Toby_HDi
Posts: 1354
Joined: 05 Jan 2008, 21:31
Location: Malvern, Worcestershire
My Cars:
x 3

Post by Toby_HDi »

citronut wrote:how hard was the ride before the sphere change, may be the car is ridding how it should now, nice and soft/smooth

and what happend to the rest of the first 5lt can of hydraflush, as i dont usualy get through a full can on one car

regards malcolm
To be honest it wasn't overly hard but you felt the bumps, still do now but it all just feels loose. Could someone perhaps describe how a Xantia should ride and I might be able to compare and explain better.

I'm not sure, most of it went in the reservoir. Think the rest went to topping up the reservoir after I realised I'd bled far too much out.
Toby_HDi
Posts: 1354
Joined: 05 Jan 2008, 21:31
Location: Malvern, Worcestershire
My Cars:
x 3

Post by Toby_HDi »

Something I forgot to mention:

There seems to be no intermediate height. Can move the lever to the intermediate position but it seems to go to high?

Also, Jim mentioned greasing the struts. Is lithium based grease suitable for this? I have some CV grease in the shed and wondered if it'll be ok.
admiral51
Donor 2023
Posts: 2625
Joined: 24 May 2007, 10:11
Location: poole dorset uk
Lexia Available: Yes
My Cars: C5 X7 2009 2.0 HDI VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
C4 2010 2.0 HDi Exclusive VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]
x 378

Post by admiral51 »

Hi Toby
have been thinking about your problems and i think i may have been more then partly to blame :oops: :oops: :oops:
When i said to you that you can see the hydraflush because its clearish i didnt say that it makes the LHM a lighter colour. My guess is that you have bleed about 1 - 1.5 litres from the front brakes expecting to see clear fluid and have not had enough fluid to do the rears my apologies and i now owe you at least 2 litres of LHM :oops: :oops: :oops:
As Citrojim says the rears must be bled but i dont think you need to change the fluid again just top up as you do the rear brakes
Intermediate setting giving you grief is probably due to air in the system cant see how you would have done anything to affect the ride hieght
Dont worry about the dates stamped on the spheres they are when they were produced but do check they have given you the correct ones not unknown to be given the wrong ones :) :)

Did you have any problems with removing the spheres or was it a walk in the park :lol: :lol:

Colin
Toby_HDi
Posts: 1354
Joined: 05 Jan 2008, 21:31
Location: Malvern, Worcestershire
My Cars:
x 3

Post by Toby_HDi »

Not at all Colin. I should have used some common sense :lol:

I do need to bleed them all again. Can you buy hydraflush in containers less than 5l? Not keen on the idea of spending £15 on hydraflush when I only need a litre or so.

No the spheres were a doddle with that tool, excellent stuff, cheers for that. The flare nut on the anti-sink took me a bit longer but that was due to the lack of room to swing the spanner round and me being over cautious as I didn't have a flare nut spanner. Accumulator was mega tight though and again, access was poor but all fine really. Changing the fluid was easy too.

To be honest I was surprised at the ease everything went. Just a shame the brakes didn't go so well but its a mistake that I will learn from.

Thanks
MikeT
Posts: 4809
Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon
x 231

Post by MikeT »

Hi Toby, are you sure intermediate isn't working albeit a little too high? The reason I ask is because on normal height, your car looked a little too high - probably could fit my fist between tyre top and arch.

p.s. I might be interested in buying any hydraflush you have left over if you do have to buy another 5L.
User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 49526
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
Location: Paggers
My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
x 6160
Contact:

Post by CitroJim »

Xantia ride quality is critically dependant on ride height. If not right, it'll not ride right at all...

Check the operation of both your Height Correctors Toby and if that all proves OK, reset your ride height if it is wrong.
Jim

Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

some times when trying to undo the A/C sphere with a chain wrench, the chain snags on the triangular ledge on the cranck case behind the sphere, when this happens it seems like the sphere is excesivly tight, when this happens to me i re/arange the chain
regards malcolm
Post Reply