N/A & Turbo heads the same?

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 01 Aug 2008, 11:20

Is there any difference between the cylinder heads of a 1.9D and 1.9TD? Considering the costs I'm facing (appx£100 if mine is good, more if needing repair) there's a brand new head on ebay complete with cam and valves with a starting bid of £60.

Post by **CitroJim** » 01 Aug 2008, 11:43

It's a moot point Mike.

Laser says they have different part numbers (0200Y9 for the Non Turbo and 0200Z0 for the Turbo) The XUD9SD also has a different part No.

I'd say that fundamentally they're pretty well identical and the different part numbers relate to heads complete with camshafts. Camshafts are naturally different.

If you can get a brand-spanker for £60, it's worth a punt...

Take huge care with S/H heads on eBay. One I saw was banana shaped

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 01 Aug 2008, 12:03

I'm not sure if it's suitable as listed as an XUD head for pugs. Item number 110274918978 if you'd like to see for yourself.

If it does have a different cam (and valves?) is it ok to replace it with mine?

Post by **CitroJim** » 01 Aug 2008, 12:39

Pugs and Cits are all the same Mike. I can tell straight off that it is a later head as it does not have the access bolt on No. 4 Cylinder for the TDC DTI used when setting timing on a mechanical pump.

As I say, I reckon, casting-wise, they're all pretty much of a muchness and it should not be any problem to swap cams except you may have to reshim to get the valve clearances right.

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 01 Aug 2008, 13:05

citrojim wrote:Pugs and Cits are all the same Mike.

What I meant was, is it for a 1.9TD or other? I know the 2.1 has five cam caps so it's not that but isn't there a 1.7 XUD also? STOP PRESS: I've just got a reply from the seller who confirms it is for XUD9's.

citrojim wrote:I can tell straight off that it is a later head as it does not have the access bolt on No. 4 Cylinder for the TDC DTI used when setting timing on a mechanical pump.

That one needs landing lights - it went straight over my head Jim

Do you mean mechanical IP as mine has one of those?

citrojim wrote:As I say, I reckon, casting-wise, they're all pretty much of a muchness and it should not be any problem to swap cams except you may have to reshim to get the valve clearances right.

Sounds hopeful then. I doubt I'll be the only bidder as shops sell these things for around £300 although that includes warranty - this just comes with it's box

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 01 Aug 2008, 13:24

GSF used to ask around 500 squid for a brand new after market head, complete ready to bolt on
regards malcolm

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 01 Aug 2008, 13:27

Sorry, I meant that's the cost of re-cond'd heads. I can imagine brand new would be far more so I'm unlikely to win this one but you never know

Post by **CitroJim** » 01 Aug 2008, 13:38

MikeT wrote:
citrojim wrote:I can tell straight off that it is a later head as it does not have the access bolt on No. 4 Cylinder for the TDC DTI used when setting timing on a mechanical pump.
That one needs landing lights - it went straight over my head Jim Do you mean mechanical IP as mine has one of those?

Sorry Mike

Early XUD heads had a stud near No.4 injector for the express purpose of finding out when No.4 piston was at TDC by sticking a Dial Test Indicator down the hole. This was only necessary with the fully mechanical pump. The semi-electronic pump as your engine has is initially timed using a fully electronic process and as a result this stud and the hole were deleted from the later heads.

Another way of telling a late head from an early head is the oil gallery drillings are stopped off with staked ball bearings in the later heads.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 01 Aug 2008, 22:58

In the days when I ran diesel CXs, I replaced a cracked head on my 2.5 turbo with a head from a 2.2 non turbo and it worked perfectly, even the valves were the same diameter. Some of the fittings were different but they all changed over. The 2.1 Peugeot/Citroen head is very different as it has 12 valves and hydraulic tappets but I would think its a fairly safe bet that all the XUD ones are similar. The only differences you may find are with the camshaft as the Peugeots and non hydropnumatic Citroens have an extension and extra pully for the vacuum pump.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 01 Aug 2008, 23:13

According to my Haynes ZX manual the camshaft is different - inlet closing is 35 degrees after BDC for the n/a engine and 31 for the turbo. No other details of differences for the head. (Doesn't meant there aren't any)

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 02 Aug 2008, 18:46

Interesting! Are there any differences to the exhaust valve timing? What would the effects be of my inlets closing 4 degrees later than stock?

I've got less than three hours to decide whether to bid for the new head and I hate to miss an opportunity.

bernie · Post by **bernie** » 03 Aug 2008, 19:37

Bit late I know but I took a head from a Pug 405 1900 TD and fitted it to a BX 1900 NA.
All I had to do was block off the oil hole to the vacuum pump.

Car ran perfectly for at least 2 years