Buying a Xsara HDi - Grateful for any advice.

mattyc · Post by **mattyc** » 25 Jul 2008, 16:18

Hi,

I am the owner of a Citroen Xsara 1.6 16v (53 Reg) but currently looking to change to an HDI Xsara, due to preference of the torque available on diesel cars - with the petrol I feel like I am always having to work the engine very hard.

There are two 2.0 HDi engines available, are they essentially the same engine? My preference at the moment would be the 110 as it has lower Co2, higher MPG and higher torque + power. Is either of the engines a better option? I do a fair bit of driving round town, although about 40% of my journeys are along dual carriageway. I do about 2000 mile a year on motorway and this is where I am not getting on very well with the petrol - I find it difficult to maintain a 70mph speed, and in 5th gear even slight inclines on the motorway are enough to put the engine under load and necessitate a down change.

Are there any common problems I should be aware of with the HDi's, or anything in particular I should look out for?

The clutch in my petrol is cable operated, are they hydraulic in the HDi? And are there problems with the clutches not being able to handle all the torque of the engine?

At what mileage should the cam belt be changed? I understand it is 100,000 miles for normal operating and 80,000 for severe?

Do faults start to develop with age on the HDi engines? There are a lot of 2002/2003 Xsaras available with around 80,000 miles on the clock... I appreciate this isn't a lot of miles by todays standards but wondered how the engine and components wear at these sorts of miles, and what problems might start occurring?

Any other advice about buying a Xsara / HDi would be much appreciated, my current Xsara was previously owned by a friend so I didn't do too much research into problems as I was confident there weren't many.

Many thanks in advance,

Matt

Post by **RichardW** » 25 Jul 2008, 17:42

Hi Matt,

The two diesel engines are basically the same - the 110 adds a different turbo and an intercooler to get the extra power. If you can get a 110 then I would

On the Xantia the 110 uses a different gearbox with longer ratios that make it feel a bit sluggish around town - but give really long legged cruising on the motorway - but I'm not sure the same applies to the Xsara. Go drive a few and see what you think - the torque of the HDi means no down changes on mway inclines - on the contrary I struggle to keep my Xantia HDi 110 at the limit

No particular faults - the LP pump can pack up anytime after 60k, but there's no way of knowing. Buy the best you can with history - and if you can ask the previous owner if they've ever misfuelled it with petrol do so - this is a very very bad idea on an HDi.....

mattyc · Post by **mattyc** » 26 Jul 2008, 22:41

Hi, Thanks...

How expensive is the pump to replace if it were to go? I am looking to buy the best example I can get for my money, and wouldn't consider buying a diesel that did not have full service history. My budget will also determine whether I get the 90 or the 110 - I would rather settle for a well looked after 90 than a 110 that is not as good an example for the same money. I am hoping to test drive a 90 which is local to me tomorrow to see if it is what I am looking for/lives up to my expectations. Unfortunately a lot of the cars for sale are 100+ miles away from me

Thanks again for your input it is very much appreciated

What is the view on cars which have been used for towing?

Thanks,

Matt

nick · Post by **nick** » 27 Jul 2008, 13:01

The low pressure pump is around £100, and fairly easy to fit. Lift up the back seat, prise the circular plastic bung out of the floor and you can see the top of the pump. Its combined with the fuel level sensor.

I bought my Xsara Hdi 2 years ago via ebay, and have generally been pleased with it. I've had a few problems though, coil spring breaking, broken wires to the drivers door causing weird central locking problems, and the COMM2000 unit packing up.
The only problem specific to the HDi engine was a dodgy MAF sensor which caused sluggish performance and excessive black exhaust smoke.
To replace this cost just under £100 for the MAF, and only took 5 mins to fit.

We also have a Xsara 1.6 16V petrol in the family too, and I know what you mean about the petrol engine. Although on paper it has the same power as an HDi 110 but has to be worked much harder than the diesel to get the power from it. The diesel is much more relaxing to drive, Ive had mine remapped to about 140 bhp and the torque is fantastic.

I have just had my clutch replaced as it was starting to slip, but I suspect the main cause of this was the remap, and it would handle the standard power output ok. On RHD facelift Xsaras the clutch is usually hydraulically operated on both the 90 and 110 versions. Prefacelift HDis, and LHD have a cable operated clutch.

mattyc · Post by **mattyc** » 27 Jul 2008, 13:41

Excellent info, thanks. I suppose the faults you have had with the com 2000 etc are faults that could develop in any xsara so I am already at risk from those faults.

My main gripe with the petrol is on the motorway it just doesn't seem comfortable cruising at 70 in 5th. Quite often on pulling away on a hill, I have changed up from 1st to 2nd (at the very top of the rev range i might add) only to find the car struggling due to the lack of torque lower down the range! Diesel I believe would also suit my style of driving which is relaxed - the petrol doesn't really allow this.

If the vehicles I'm looking at have around 70,000 miles on should the cam belt have been changed? And would it be worth replacing the fuel pump+sender unit as a precautionary measure? A hundred notes doesn't seem alot compared the the damage that some people say it can do if it fails (something about shedding metal filings which make their way past the fuel filter?)

I am looking at facelift models, am I right in thinking that the hydraulic clutch would be easier to operate? Also do the facelift HDi's have a dual mass flywheel, I was reading somewhere about problems with those but am not sure if they were used on any of the Xsara HDi's?

Again thank you for your reply, kind regards

Matt

JohnD · Post by **JohnD** » 27 Jul 2008, 16:58

My daughter runs a 2002 Xsara which I have looked after from new. It now has 70000 miles on the clock and time I was thinking about doing the cambelt. During its lifetime it has been faultless, other than a leaking matrix at the end of its first year. That was exchanged on warranty. Also it had a bleep with the stop light coming on and the temperature guage dropping to zero. A change of sender unit corrected that. I've just renewed the brake pads all round for the second time, and it also got new discs on the first change.

Hydraulic clutch has been good and the pedal is free to move without drag. I change the coolant every two years and brake fluid every three. It recently had its MOT and apart from the new linings, hasn't needed any other parts. I wouldn't be looking to change the lift pump before I needed to.

Post by **myglaren** » 27 Jul 2008, 17:48

How about an inline fuel filter to stop any metal fragments from reaching any sensitive bits?

nick · Post by **nick** » 27 Jul 2008, 19:57

The Xsara HDi hatch & estate escaped the dual mass flywheel fortunately, although some late model Picasso 1.6 HDis do have them.
I've never driven an HDi with a cable operated clutch, but the hydraulic clutch in mine does seem lighter than the cable operated ones in other Citroen diesels I've owned.

At 77k mine is probably due for a new cambelt soon, although the official interval is 100k.

The low pressure pump is a matter of opinion really, my Xsara is still on its original as far as I can tell. Apparently they tend to get noisy as they begin to pack up, but mine just makes a faint hum/whine when the key is switched on which is normal.

bencowell · Post by **bencowell** » 29 Jul 2008, 21:35

Dad's Xsara Picasso 1.6 HDI 110 definately does have a dual mass flywheel. It was changed under warranty for one of a different design.

nick · Post by **nick** » 29 Jul 2008, 21:44

I think it was confined to the 1.6 110 Picasso. The 2.0 HDi hatchbacks/estates certainly don't have a DMF, even in 110 bhp form.

mattyc · Post by **mattyc** » 30 Jul 2008, 16:32

Thanks for all the advice, its just useful to know what to look out for and have an idea of what things are likely to go wrong.

I test drove a Xsara 110 HDi yesterday and was not that impressed - I think this was mainly due to the car I test drove though, as the throttle cable had a lot of slack in it so couldn't test it to much. I was impressed with the torque though and would find it much more relaxing to drive around in the HDi.

I walked away from that particular car though as it was relatively expensive for the age and things like the throttle cable not being adjusted properly, the handbrake cable needed tightening as it was loose as anything, and the rear discs were badly corroded - I don't even think they were functioning under normal breaking (looked like the pads hadn't made contact with the disc while moving for a while)... Just made me wonder what other simple maintenance issues had been overlooked during its life. I have read somewhere that the rear breaks often need a complete overhaul if allowed to degrade. The hydraulic clutch was very smooth though, although biting point seemed quite high, would this indicated the clutch is well worn? Was certainly a lot lighter to operate than my cable operated clutch... Went to see a second Xsara and the clutch on that was very sticky and creaky, not sure if it was a pedal issue, but I assumed it also had a hydrualic clutch.

Its just a shame that all the cars are such a distance away, it makes viewing them very difficult. Still, the search continues...

Thanks again for all input so far

Matt

nick · Post by **nick** » 30 Jul 2008, 19:11

mattyc wrote: The hydraulic clutch was very smooth though, although biting point seemed quite high, would this indicated the clutch is well worn?

Quite likely yes. It was very noticeable with mine when the clutch was replaced that the biting point went from close to the top of the pedal travel to close to the bottom with a new clutch.
Mine also had a very slack throttle cable when I bought it, despite its full dealer service history

I just don't think they bother to check things like that on a dealer service now

The handbrake/rear disc problem sounds like one or both rear callipers are seized. When was it last MOT'd? It shouldn't really have passed in that state.

Even late model Xsara HDi 110s are virtually worth peanuts now, so I would walk away from one that isn't near perfect, unless its very cheap and you don't mind doing a bit of work on it.