Xsara Estate HDi 2001: experience and lessons learned

[Bartfarst]

Being new to the forum I just thought I'd share some of my knowledge of and experience with the type having had two of these fine vehicles over the last 2.5 years.

Heated Rear Window Failure

I discovered that main power line within the tracheal rubber tube between body and tailgate had fatigued and broken. The root cause seems to be that the tube does not necessarily fold where the designer intended. I patched a link between the two ends and away we went. You probably know already, but under such situations I found it useful to trace the location of the break using a fine needle to poke though the insulation and an AVO.

ABS light on erroneously

On one Xsara excessive rust on the periphery of the front discs caused them to grate and grind when warm. Since then I've routinely 'machined-off' excess rust by lifting one wheel off the deck, removing the wheel, sticking it in second gear with the engine running and using an old lathe tool to remove all the muck and rust. The last time I did this, the ABS light stayed on afterwards. Suspecting that I'd screwed-up one ABS sensor I fiddled with it for ages before postulating that the ABS control unit had got confused by only getting a wheel rotation signal from one wheel instead of three. Sure enough, when I put it back together, after 500 yds down the road the fault cleared. A great relief!

ECO Mode - A Right Pain!

I started to change a cam belt then, half way through, I had to do something else. Working on it outside, I'd left the window down and the car entered ECO mode and therefore when it started to rain I couldn't wind it back up, well not without starting the engine, and the cam belt was still off! Moral of the tale: always close your windows before it enters ECO mode if you cannot run the engine.

Does anyone know how to extend or cancel ECO mode? It's also a pain when I'm living in the car (see below) and want to listen to the radio.

Xsara Estate as an economy motorcaravan

I use my Xsara Estate as a one-man motorcaravan. I've just returned from a five day tour of Isle of Mull which (from B'ham area) cost me the minimum in fuel and nothing for accommodation. This is simply how I use it.

Remove both rear horizontal seat sections and all head rests except the driver's side (single 13mm AF nut per seat section).
Put passenger seat fully upright and fully forward.
Locate a Thetford Porta-Potti 365 behind passenger seat (for emergency use only!)
Lay an airbed along the length of the vehicle (normally have my head at the front, above the port-potti).
I screw a tool safe to one of the lashing point mountings behind the driver's seat in which I keep any valuables.

I fold-up the airbed/sleeping bag and cook at the rear with food and other stuff stored behind the drivers seat. I'm just under six feet tall and find it most comfortable. If it's wet, one can get from the drivers seat to the bed relatively easily with the driver's seat a fair way back.

In fine weather, touring in this way is great. When it's foul then, well, it isn't such fun. Drying out wet clothes and cagoules inside a Xsara Estate whilst trying to keep a dry bed is not easy!

In my first Xsara Estate I temporarily removed the passenger seat for additonal space, but this is not essential. Also this confuses the airbag system so I'm unsure whether they would fire in a crash situation. Incidentally, in both Xsaras the wiring to the seat has been a bodged birds nest where connections have failed. If your airbag light comes on I suggest this is the first place to look.

Estate hatch latch difficult to open

If the electric latch struggles to open, minor adjustment to the position of the loop along the lower edge (Torx screw) usually improves the situation.

Facelift Headlight Cluster Bulb Replacement

This has to be one of the worst bits of design on the Xsara. Changing any of the bulbs in the cluster is difficult, some are just awful. On the nearside, it is impossible without you disconnect the multiway plug to the ABS unit, then it's still damn difficult. The only way I've found of getting the sidelight out is to yank on the wires, which I don't like doing at all. When putting the bulb holder back I stick a bit of lubricant on it so it comes out easier the next time. The three halogen bulbs are awful too. Once as I struggled with mirrors and snipe-nosed pliers, one of the folded wire bulb retaining clips pinged-off and fell down inside the lamp unit. I eventually recovered it with a piece of magnetised steel.

This is a typical example of someone laying out a design on 3D CAD without actually trying to maintain the thing afterwards!

Spare Wheel Carrier J-nut

If you've never had your spare wheel carrier down then it's probably all rusty and siezed and you'll stand no chance of getting the wheel off with that annoying end of the wheel brace provided. I recommend removing, greasing and cleaning the thread and J bolt in the comfort of your own drive, not at the side of the M6!

Throttle Cable Adjustment

Both my Xsaras had (in my opinion) excessive play in the throttle cable, even to the point where full throttle probably couldn't be achieved. I found it simple to take up the slack at the other end of the cable (under bonnet close to bulkhead, nearside) by repositioning the U clip on the 'potentiometer' body. The car feels more sprightly after this, even though it probably isn't.

Dip Stick Working Out

One usually associates dip sticks blowing out with excessive crankcase pressure, but I don't think it's the case with the HDi as the dipstick dips the oil through a dip tube facilitating (I think) vacuum extraction of the engine oil. A loose engine cover (sheared rubber dampers) may also help the stick out. Either way, a bit of sticky tape or a blast with a heat gun distorts the plastic end of the stick enough to increase the insertion force and stop it falling out.

Leaking radiator

One treatment of STP coolant leak fluid fixed my leaking radiator.

Centre console box lid dropped off

"They all do that Sir!" A ridiculous design plastic hinge shears off early life usually before they're old enough to come to me. Screw a bit of rubber sheet to the lid with two short self-tappers, remove the rectangular plastic plug from the rear edge of the console box, punch a corresponding pattern of holes in the piece of rubber sheet and reinsert into the box retaining the piece of rubber sheet. Job done!

Instrument lights behing heater controls

Most of mine have gone over the years and I dare not contemplate how much trim has to be removed to get at the bulbs. Looks awful - anyone done it? I think it's worse with the facelift model.

'P' bushes on front wishbones

I've done far too many of these on Xsaras and P306s. The last ones I did on a Xsara lasted one MOT despite taking great care to get the angle right on the shaft to avoid permanent stress on the rubber. I can only think that PSA approved spares may perform better than no-make aftermarket stuff.

Front Shocks

In my experience the handling of 150k+ Xsaras degrades due to the front shocks going off. They still pass the 'bounce' test but, in my case, allowed a higher frequency flutter. New shocks made a fair difference but didn't transform the 'tired' handling as I'd hoped. Next time I would fit new springs too if reasonably priced. As has been said elsewhere, when changing front shocks, new drop links are a must as the old ones won't come off in one piece.

Handbrake Cables

Mine have partially collapsed where subject to bending. Replacement was straighforward but the Quinton Hazel ones fitted seemed to stretch too much after installation requiring frequent re-adjustment. Anyone that's done this knows what a pain it is to remove the centre console to gain access to the adjuster. My advice: fit the cables but keep the centre console off until all the stretch comes out, or operate the handbrake as hard as you can for as many times as you can before checking and reassembling.

Radio Amnesia

One Xsara forgot which radio station it was tuned to every time the engine was switched-off. Drove me mad and never found the cause. Any ideas?

That's about all I can remember for now. Hope this helps.


Stuart

[f00lzz]

What a refreshing change... not very often we get a post like this, very informative and incitive.. cheers


Ian

[wheeler]

Dip Stick Working Out

One usually associates dip sticks blowing out with excessive crankcase pressure, but I don't think it's the case with the HDi as the dipstick dips the oil through a dip tube facilitating (I think) vacuum extraction of the engine oil. A loose engine cover (sheared rubber dampers) may also help the stick out. Either way, a bit of sticky tape or a blast with a heat gun distorts the plastic end of the stick enough to increase the insertion force and stop it falling out.

This is definitely caused by sheared engine cover mounts, but the new mounts aint expensive from citroen so i wouldnt mess about with sticky tape etc as this can also cause the oil cap to come loose.

ECO mode cant be turned off.

[nick]

Yes a very informative post.

re. the HDi engine cover mounts, there was a Peugeot main dealer selling packs of these on ebay a while back. Even with the postage cost they worked out slightly cheaper than a Citroen dealer would normally charge for them.

Another fairly common Xsara irritation is the passenger side dash air vent falling apart, particularly if someone has accidently caught it when getting into the car. It consists of two moulded plastic halves which can separate, then the plastic thumbwheel to control the airflow dissappears inside making it very awkward to control.
The unit is just a push fit into the dash, and can be levered out from the side with the glovebox lid open. Fasten the two halves of the vent back together with superglue, rather than the silly plastic lugs provided, and it will stay in one piece permanently.

[howiedean]

Yes a very informative post.

re. the HDi engine cover mounts, there was a Peugeot main dealer selling packs of these on ebay a while back. Even with the postage cost they worked out slightly cheaper than a Citroen dealer would normally charge for them.

Another fairly common Xsara irritation is the passenger side dash air vent falling apart, particularly if someone has accidently caught it when getting into the car. It consists of two moulded plastic halves which can separate, then the plastic thumbwheel to control the airflow dissappears inside making it very awkward to control.
The unit is just a push fit into the dash, and can be levered out from the side with the glovebox lid open. Fasten the two halves of the vent back together with superglue, rather than the silly plastic lugs provided, and it will stay in one piece permanently.

My son has a nasty habbit of putting his feet on the dash and has broken both the vents my two Xsara's. They are a bit of a fiddle.

[nick]

The vent on mine first came apart after I'd left my boss sat in the car on his own for a few minutes, not sure if he had his feet on the dash but I wouldn't be surprised

I clipped it back together a couple of times, and it can be a fiddle. Each time it came apart again after a week or two, so I finally glued it and its been fine since.

[Bartfarst]

Yes a very informative post.

Another fairly common Xsara irritation is the passenger side dash air vent falling apart.........

Thanks for your appreciative comments.

Regarding air vents, mine have not fallen apart yet. However I get the feeling that I'm not getting all the flow I should from the central face level vent when in the 'horizontal arrow' position and with the fan speed high. I wonder whether a baffle isn't closing off or whatever. has anyone had any experience with heater control failure or slippage etc?

Regarding rubber dampers for the engine cover, yes, I've seen them on eBay for about a tenner a set of four, and about the same for the accompanying clips. Has anyone seen them cheaper than that?


Stuart

[Clogzz]

Don’t know about the Xsara, but the Xantia has a cable to open the face vents when the air flow slider is fully to the left.
Over the rest of its course, the face vent cable is always fully retracted from its outer sheath, and doesn’t let much air through the face vents.
That cable has a blue ring to mark it, and is the only one going to the left.

Some ideas here, 2-page topic:
http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=48762

[reblack68]

I got my engine cover clips from Paragonpug on eBay. To get them from the dealer would have involved two trips to Dundee, they won't order anything without full payment up front, at a cost of about £8 in fuel so it worked out cheaper and easier for me this way.

Re the forgetful radio. Car radios generally have three power feeds- one ignition controlled to operate the radio, one on the lighting circuit and a permanent 12V feed to keep the memory. The position of these seems to be interchangable and I've had to swap them around when fitting an aftermarket stereo. If your radio is the factory one you'll probably find that there's a blown fuse in the permanent feed.

[Bartfarst]

.....however I get the feeling that I'm not getting all the flow I should from the central face level vent when in the 'horizontal arrow' position and with the fan speed high. I wonder whether a baffle isn't closing off or whatever....

Well as part of stopping the fan bearing squealing (see my other posting) I investigated this problem further today.

Firstly, on dropping the carpet section below the glove box I identified that, as suspected, the heat control actuator cable was clipped in a position such that full closure of the cold/hot baffle was not being achieved. I withdrew the cable from the clip and it must now be fully closing off whatever it operates. Whether the air is any cooler is another matter. It still doesn't seem to be at full ambient temperature. I wonder whether the power of the fan is putting significant heat into the air to raise its temperature (power = flow rate x pressure increase if I remember correctly) then there's the dropper resistor which could be chucking heat into the air flow too. Anyway, I think this is now operating as it is supposed to.

Secondly, whilst grubbing about down there I took a look at the pollen filter. It was completely solid with muck, dust, bugs and grit! The car is supposed to have had dealer servicing up to 85k but, looking at the date on the plastic moulded frame of the filter, I think it hasn't been changed since approx 2002/3. Anyway I blew it out with an air line (took ages till the air came clean) and, wow, what a difference. Air now belts out of the face level vent like never before. It's still not that cool though, but at least it's ventilation!

Another Xsara lesson learned: keep a close eye on your pollen filter. I might even consider taking it out altogether.

Regarding the radio amnesia, all the presets are retained in memory OK, but I have to select one preset by button every time I start the engine. In other words it forgets which of the presets it was on previously. Accordingly I think the 12V supply is being maintained, but one memory function within the unit is not doing what it should. The radio works fine in all other respects.

Stuart

[nick]

Another Xsara lesson learned: keep a close eye on your pollen filter. I might even consider taking it out altogether.

I've thought of doing this too, but apparently if the car has aircon the pollen filter is worthwhile as it helps to keep dirt from gumming up the aircon evaporator.

[lolingram]

My son has a nasty habbit of putting his feet on the dash and has broken both the vents my two Xsara's.

First time: shame on him.
Second time: shame on you.......

[Bartfarst]

I've thought of doing this too, but apparently if the car has aircon the pollen filter is worthwhile as it helps to keep dirt from gumming up the aircon evaporator.

Thanks for the warning. Mine is actually 'L' trim level and doesn't have A/C so I suspect I'll be OK. I'll investigate what effect leaving out the filter has and report back.

Regarding Xsara Estates in 'L' trim level, I wonder whether anyone else has had trouble insuring them? For example, Tesco don't recognise the existance of this variant and therefore each time I've insured them they've had to treat the car as an oddball specification requiring "special authority from our underwriter". Ridiculous!

Further to my earlier comments about the blower blowing warmer than ambient air, I read from other forums that the motor consumes 20A which, at a nominal 13.8V equates to a power consumption of 276W, all of which, either through motor cooling or pressure drop x flow rate, must eventually come into the airflow. This could account for a couple of degrees of temperature incrrease I suppose.

[nick]

Yes I've often thought it was a bit pointless of manufacturers to fit pollen filters on cars without aircon, I think I would leave the filter out too in that case.

The 'L' trim was an official UK spec level so its quite surprising that Tesco don't recognise it, although the L seems fairly rare.
I used to have a 'base' model Xantia TD, and that sometimes caused similar confusion. That was strictly speaking a "fleet only" model, I wonder if the Xsara L was too?

[_kid_]

Regarding the radio always losing its memory- have you tried taking the headunit out and looking at the wires- you may find the red and yellow wires from the head into the wires being the dash are the wrong way round, change these over and you should be ok. I know because this is what i did with my Xsara