Michelin Energy tyres

C.J. · Post by **C.J.** » 06 Jun 2008, 19:21

Can't belive that my 'new' Xantia still appears to have 2 of it's original 'Energy' tyres on after 98,500 , but they are getting a bit near 'the bone' now tbh.
Is there any positive proof to back up the claim that they give better fuel consumption, and therefore stump up the extra cost for another pair, and p'raps buy 2 for the front too, or go for another pair of cheapies to match the front ones?

Sl4yer · Post by **Sl4yer** » 06 Jun 2008, 20:59

I got over 50000 miles out of some Michelin Pilot Sport 2 tyres (on the back of course), so I guess that mileage out of Energy tyres is just feasible. But even if there is some tread left, I doubt the condition of the rubber is good after so long.

I always fit Michelin Energy to the ZX, but more on safety grounds than economy. Tyres, along with brakes, are areas never to skimp on IMO. A cost saving was proven when these were launched, but most of the prime brands will be similar now. Most of us could probably save more by adapting our driving style!

James

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 09 Jun 2008, 09:00

I always fit Michelin Energy to the ZX, but more on safety grounds than economy. Tyres, along with brakes, are areas never to skimp on IMO.

I used to think along similar lines, but since I have had to shell out for my own repairs, I have carefully checked the performance and cost of Itchyfanny brands versus premium makes. The result for me being that most of the cheap brands are owned by the major companies... i.e. MATADOR is actually owned by Continental - made in Czecho - and the drive/comfort is excellent, as well as the mileage, in my MK2 Xantia estate on 205x55x15 VR rated, but at half the price.

pete_wood_uk · Post by **pete_wood_uk** » 09 Jun 2008, 13:04

Beg to differ with previous posters, but I guess that value for money depends on how you value your money.

The rant that follows is my own personal opinion only, others will disagree. It's based on my own experience with a CX, three Xantias and a C5...

My approach to Michelin Energys, and I've had several, has been to remove them from the car as soon as possible, I think that they're lethal death-traps. I live in the Cambridgeshire fens, roads often wet, muddy, reverse-cambered and with *looooong* drops into the ditches on either side. Michelin Energys have appalling grip, wet or dry, and give you virtually no feedback about what's going on underneath. I neither know nor care whether they last a few miles longer than the competition, or whether they deliver slightly more MPG than the competition. My life, and that of my wife and son, are worth far more than that.

OK, so I like to "make progress" when driving [

] but I don't buy the argument that "I drive like a granny so any old s**t will do". You may drive like a granny, but others don't, and others can unfortunately have accidents in front of you which mean you need to stop in a hurry or change direction in a corner, neither of which are things that the Michelin Energy tyre helps you to do.

If your Xantia is on 185/65/15s then Goodyear Excellence are pretty damn good (the GY Eagle Venturas I used to have on the CX were wonderful, but they're long-discontinued). They (the Excellence) appear to stick well, give good feedback, and break away progressively. My old TD Xantia steered nicely on the throttle with them on the front, it turned in sharply and you could throw it into a bend with confidence. It kept you informed about what was going on.

On no acount whatsoever put Uniroyals on the front of a Xantia. I was talked into it three years ago, and the ensuing 2 years were a misery. They seem to call them "the rain tyre", because they're supposed to grip nearly as well in the wet as in the dry. Actually, that may well be true, they don't seem to grip in the dry either. I lost all ability to throttle-steer, it was just dogged understeer all the way to some scary moments near the gutters. Ghastly. You threw the car into a bend and honestly had very little idea about where (or if) it was going to come out

.

Actually, I think that part of the problem with the Uniroyals was sidewall & shoulder stiffness. There's loads of compliance already in the Xantia suspension, the last thing that you want is soft sidewalls on the tyres adding more. If you rocked the car from side to side (foot on top of tyre and push hard) then there was a lot more compliance with the Uniroyal than the GYs. The Xantia doesn't need the ride-quality help that soft sidewalls provide, but the steering needs all the help it can get from stiff sidewalls!

My HDI Xantia was shod for a while on Michelin Pilot Primacy (205/60/15 from memory, and had to be V rated) and was very good, but they're now discontinued in that size. It was very good - the transformation from Energys to Primacys made you think it was a different car. It's currently got Pilot Primacys on the Front and GY Excellence on the back, and is still fine.

The new C5, as I wrote the other day, is a fairly underwhelming handler, and it's got Pilot Primacy HP all round. I may try the Goodyears on it next - its fronts are about shot - and if I don't like it then I can stick 'em on the back, bring the rear PPHPs to the front, and report back here...

Cheers
Pete (in an opinionated mood this lunchtime, clearly

)

Post by **myglaren** » 09 Jun 2008, 13:18

Nice rant Pete and food for thought.

I was going to pu Klebers on next time but maybe not?

Anyone any words about Yokohama tyres on C5s?

pete_wood_uk · Post by **pete_wood_uk** » 09 Jun 2008, 13:40

myglaren wrote:Nice rant Pete and food for thought.

I was going to pu Klebers on next time but maybe not?

Well, I didn't mention this above, because I don't think it's sufficient experience on which to base even an opinion, but for what it's worth....

When Laura and I were test-driving C5s the other month, we drove 2 in the space of a couple of hours - both lowish mileage HDI 138 estates. One was a VTR and one Exclusive, though I don't think that makes any difference to chassis/wheels. The first one that we drove felt flighty and skittish as hell on a wet country road (it was a lovely day, at least for ducks...). It was on Klebers at the front and PPHPs at the back - I deliberately looked when we came back from the test drive, because the steering had felt so odd, at least after the Xantia. The second one, which was the one we bought, felt a lot better planted, that's the one which is on PPHPs all round, albeit about which I'm now starting to grumble since I've had a few thousand miles to get the feel of it.

There could be many explanations for this other than the Kleber tyres - it's two different cars, so the first one could for example have had a bang at the front to knock the alignment out, or it could just have been Laura and I getting the hang of driving the thing - there's *how* many effing gears?

- whereas by the time we'd got to the second one (and driven an S-Max in between) we were getting a bit more into the test-driving groove. Which is why I didn't mention it. But I have now

.

Cheers
Pete

C.J. · Post by **C.J.** » 09 Jun 2008, 13:59

Well I'm totally baffled now then after reading all that.

Going to have to make my mind up pretty damned quick though, as there's a 'slowy' on one of the two 'Energys'.

With regard to Yoko's, I've got A539's ( no longer available apparently) on the AX GT, and they are stunningly crap in the wet.

Decisions decisions....and life preserving ones at that.

Post by **myglaren** » 09 Jun 2008, 14:22

Looks like the Goodyears rise to the top of the list then.
Nice to have unbiassed opinions based on actual useage, rather than the vendor of choice pushing their favoured tyres for reasons entirely their own, usually profit linked.

My daughter sold her Xantia purely due to is being a bit skittish on roundabouts. I'm convinced it was due to the tyres fitted but that was a couple of years ago now so impossible to check what they were.

I'm generally quite pleased with the roadholding on my C5 but it does break away occasionally in wet weather on roundabouts - I know, slow down, but still.

pete_wood_uk · Post by **pete_wood_uk** » 09 Jun 2008, 14:32

C.J. wrote:Well I'm totally baffled now then after reading all that.

Let's see if there's a profanity filter here . Are you familiar with the saying "Opinions are like a**holes - everyone's got one, no-one wants to look at the other guy's"...

myglaren wrote:Looks like the Goodyears rise to the top of the list then.

Well, I've been happy, but I'm aware that I'm perhaps in the lucky position about not having to worry as much as some about the price of the tyres I buy. I'm not rich but an extra £40 on a pair of tyres that'll last 25,000 miles is an extra fifth of a penny a mile which doesn't worry me too much.

myglaren wrote:I know, slow down, but still.

Surely a true economy tyre is one that doesn't make you slow down for corners?

Cheers
Pete

Post by **myglaren** » 09 Jun 2008, 14:48

Pete wrote:Surely a true economy tyre is one that doesn't make you slow down for corners?

Can't argue with that.

Post by **RichardW** » 09 Jun 2008, 15:40

My HDi had GY Excellence on the front when I bought it, and I wasn't that impressed with them (but that may have been down to slghtly wonky track rod ends rather than the tyres). They have been replaced with GY Hydragrips (the succesor to the much vaunted Eagle Ventura) which are excellent IMO - not found them wanting in wet or dry. There's more grip than I've found the limit of... I got them through Black Circles - fitted for £136 the pair in 205/60/15 - and they're W rated or something.

I had a pair of Avon ZV3 on my previous Xantia, and thought they were horrible.

simoncanfer · Post by **simoncanfer** » 09 Jun 2008, 21:50

I have Pirelli Powergy P6000 tyres on a xantia 110hdi. Grip is more than I need, and these are high-silica compound rubber, much like the Mich Energy.

Last week's heavy rain here in the UK proved that they're good in the wet too.

I have not got direct experience of the xantia on Energy tyres, but on my old ZX they did not inspire confidence in the wet. They did last a long time though!

Post by **CitroJim** » 09 Jun 2008, 22:06

simoncanfer wrote:I have Pirelli Powergy P6000 tyres on a xantia 110hdi.

I've got some Pirelli P6000s on my 1.9TD. They seem fine but in some quarters they're called Pirelli Ditchfinders.

If nothing else, they seem to wear well.

rabenson · Post by **rabenson** » 10 Jun 2008, 08:50

changed from Michelin pilot premacy to Toyo proxes - the improvement in grip in wet and dry is very noticeable!

C.J. · Post by **C.J.** » 10 Jun 2008, 09:59

simoncanfer wrote:I have Pirelli Powergy P6000 tyres on a xantia 110hdi. Grip is more than I need, and these are high-silica compound rubber, much like the Mich Energy.

Last week's heavy rain here in the UK proved that they're good in the wet too.

I have not got direct experience of the xantia on Energy tyres, but on my old ZX they did not inspire confidence in the wet. They did last a long time though!

So far then, these are in the lead for my impending purchase.
Any other experiences anyone?

I'm not out looking for extreme performance tyres for the Xantia, as I save the 'squealing and on the limit stuff' for track days, but good grip and stopping ability on the public highway is a must, as is longevity too I suppose.
As is often the case these days, too much choice and so many differing opinions.