Xantia / C5 driving comparison

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Post Reply
pete_wood_uk
Posts: 180
Joined: 22 Apr 2004, 13:08
Location: Cambs, United Kingdom
My Cars:

Xantia / C5 driving comparison

Post by pete_wood_uk »

This is somewhat self-indulgent, but I thought I'd occupy a lunchtime by writing up my Xantia-vs-C5 driving experiences - I'm sure it's been done before but anyone else contemplating the swap may find it interesting.

After my old Xantia TD saloon went to the great scrapheap in the sky (actually, I think it's still running as my garage's courtesy car) we bought a C5, so the stable is now a 2007 C5 2.0HDi 16V (138) Exclusive Estate and a 2000 Xantia 2.0HDi (110) Exclusive Estate. Respective mileages are 19k and 141k (we tend to run cars til they die...). I can't comment on maintenance costs because the C5 hasn't needed any yet, the HDI Xantia seems cheap enough to run, despite the non-commonality of the front-end with every other Xantia (OK, there was an exchange driveshaft, the long one. Ouch.).

If you want a shed on wheels, then either will do. The C5 is fractionally bigger in the boot, but not to the extent you'd expect with 4 more inches on the overall length of the car - that mostly seems to have gone on bumpers. The boot's a bit higher in the sides, though the hatch seems smaller. Well-loaded for a holiday with child, the split rear hatch on the C5 is a boon - you can open just the glass and drop things in, rather than opening up the whole estate door. A simple trick, but very handy. You can push buttons in the boot to make the rear suspension go up and down. Haven't seen a point to that, yet.

Inside, a 6' driver can at last get far enough away from the pedals (always a Xantia problem, the "italian" driving position) but the price is paid for that in rear-seat legroom which is probably less than the Xantia.

The main differences between the two are in the driving experience, which boils down to the engine and the chassis. The 16v 138 engine is a powerful lump, it goes well. Midrange point-and-squirt overtaking in the 40-to-70 band in 3rd or 4th gear is damned impressive. What isn't impressive is the throttle response and the turbo lag, which is noticeably worse than the relatively snappy HDI 110 engine. The fly-by-wire throttle has a very long travel (which is probably why that same engine feels snappier in the Ford S-max that we also test drove) which doesn't help, but there's a noticeable delay between pushing the pedal and the elves under the bonnet pedalling much harder. They do pedal hard, very hard, but they have to take a deep breath first :-). I'm sure I'll adapt, it's probably all in a good cause of optimising fuel consumption or something.

As a motorway cruising engine it's brilliant - oodles of torque, very well managed by the cruise control, just dial in the speed you want and (within sanity on English motorways) there's no sense of strain at all.

The C5 chassis is simply not as good as the Hydractive II Xantia. With the "I'm in a hurry" button (aka sport mode) pushed on the dashboard to nip it tighter, sooner, the Xantia estate can be a complete hoot to drive. Mine's on relatively sticky rubber (a mix of Michelin Pilot Primacy and Goodyear Excellence) and you can stuff it into bends with gay abandon. It turns in sharply and neutrally, and it steers nicely on the throttle - running wide or tightening in as you command.

The C5 just isn't in the same league. It understeers fairly doggedly, it doesn't seem to react much to the throttle, it doesn't change direction quickly enough for B-road fun, and pushed hard on sweeping A-roads (for those of you who know it, the A169 Pickering to Whitby road is good for a laugh) it wallows and drifts and feels numb and ragged where the Hydractive II Xantia simply plants itself down on the road and gets on with the job. That said, I got it across the A169 in pretty quick time, I just didn't particularly enjoy the experience. Driven at 7-tenths it's fine, and frankly (with that lovely strong engine) the C5 at 7-tenths is probably faster than the Xantia being caned. It just ain't *fun*, is what I'm saying. That may be tyre-dependent - the Pilot Primacys on the front are nearly shagged, may try the Goodyear alternative next, have been well impressed with them on the Xantias.

Does any car need 6 gears? The C5 engine certainly doesn't. I don't tow a caravan, mind...

My Xantia has had the silly spring in the brakes removed (12mm water pipe does the trick), so they're Real Citroen Brakes. Unlike the C5 brakes, which I'm sure are fine if you like that sort of thing. Like the throttle response, I'll get used to it.

C5 is returning (by its own uncalibrated odometer) about 44mpg (though the trip computer suggests 48 ) and the Xantia returns about 48 (but I know its speedo overreads by 10%, so I assume its odometer does too, I ought to borrow a pocket GPS).

Summary: It's bigger, it's faster, it's newer, it's got lots of toys, it's got plenty of room, you can cover hundreds of miles in it without getting pains in the back and legs, it's a good practical family car. But it's not really an entertaining driver's car in the sense that the Hydractive Xantia managed to sneak in as under the radar. Guess that wasn't in the spec.

All the above is just my opinion, not to be confused in any way with "fact". :-)

Pete
Xantia HDi 110 Excl Estate 140k
C5 HDi 138 Estate
User avatar
myglaren
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 25466
Joined: 02 Mar 2008, 13:30
Location: Washington
My Cars: Mazda 6
Ooops.
Previously:
2009 Honda Civic :(
C5, C5, Xantia, BX, GS, Visa.
R4, R11TXE, R14, R30TX
x 4920

Post by myglaren »

Thanks for the run down, most interesting. I wish I could do a similar direct comparison with my Xantia (totalled and a Honda in between).

It may well be wishful thinking but I an convinced that despite many things that are good about the C5, the Xantia had the edge on it both with regard to roadholding and comfort. It seemed to be more powerfull too, especially the pulling away on roundabouts and T-junctions bit.

My son and son-in-law are both in agreement with this although there is something of a knack to it and I can beat my brother's 328i off the lights, although he soon catches up and then disappears in the distance.

Knocks the spots off my daughter's and other son-in-law's matching 525 TDi's though.

When I was paying for my C5 a last-model Xantia 2L petrol SVX came in.
It went on sale for half the price of the C5, was in pristine condition inside and out, had 13,000 miles on it. Been an old guy who only used it for shopping once a week and was garaged the rest of the time, I think about the longest trip it made was to the dealer's for servicing and valeting every three months religiously, whether or not it was due.

I'm still kicking myself for passing it over.
den169
Posts: 262
Joined: 30 Jul 2002, 20:51
Location: Bradford
My Cars:

Post by den169 »

I had a diesel Xantia estate which i thought was great,But after buying a c5 sx estate i don't think theres anyway i'd have another Xantia the c5 is far superior in every way to the xantia.Faster smoother great on long journeys etc.Just better all round.
User avatar
reblack68
Posts: 1047
Joined: 11 Feb 2004, 01:28
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by reblack68 »

I think the C5 feels a bit tinnier than the Xantia. Our C5 is slower too. I don't know if that's due to weight, gearing or the lowish mileage.
Richard

No French cars of my own at present.
Care of a 1994 205 D.
steelcityuk
Posts: 1053
Joined: 03 Jul 2006, 21:51
Location: not applicable
My Cars: not applicable
x 1

Post by steelcityuk »

Does the C5 have Hydractive 3+ or just 3?

If only 3 then I guess a comparison would have to be done against a non hydractive Xantia.

Unfortunately my C5 only has basic suspension but it does seem to ride OK. I just need to stay out of a 3+ type in case I find out what I'm missing.

I find the lack of good servicing info a real drawback to owning a C5. With both the Xantia and XM there was loads of good info available.

Steve.
not applicable
pete_wood_uk
Posts: 180
Joined: 22 Apr 2004, 13:08
Location: Cambs, United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by pete_wood_uk »

steelcityuk wrote:Does the C5 have Hydractive 3+ or just 3?
I'm embarrassed to say that I don't actually know. We bought the thing 2 or 3 weeks ago and, with various commitments, all we've actually done is to drive it (and wind well over a thousand miles onto it already). The spec sheets are somewhat vague; there's no "sport" button, so I assumed it was just H3, but I was playing the other day with the on-board electronics and the trip computer's status display was talking about the suspension mode. So I dunno. I just assumed that Citroen were a bunch of cheapskates and had dropped Hydractive (well, OK, in the C5 context I mean the "plus" bit) on the top-spec estate, whereas the top-spec Xantia estate certainly has it.

There's an awful lot of plastic under the bonnet. Anyone know of an easier way to tell for sure than taking all the plastic off and counting the spheres...?

Pete
Xantia HDi 110 Excl Estate 140k
C5 HDi 138 Estate
steelcityuk
Posts: 1053
Joined: 03 Jul 2006, 21:51
Location: not applicable
My Cars: not applicable
x 1

Post by steelcityuk »

Hi,

If it's a 3+ it will have the up and down arrow buttons plus a button in the middle. If it's like mine it has the arrow buttons and a Citroen badge in the middle.

If find the ride more consistent than the XM it's replacing but not as soft overall. Strangely compared to the Xantia I had the C5 has cruise control but the leather seats aren't heated. Seems a strange omission. BTW the Xantia was an Exclusive HDi so I assume the injection pump is the same on both engines, which if it is why didn't Citroen fit it. Just musing.

Steve.
not applicable
jgra1
(Donor 2021)
Posts: 4625
Joined: 27 Nov 2005, 19:07
Location: Kent / Susssex
My Cars: 2010 C5 X7 2.0 hdi 160 exc auto
MG TF 135
Boxer II 2.2 camper conversion
BMW R1200RT
BMW K1300 R
Honda V F R 800 5thG / MT500 Armstrong
x 39

Post by jgra1 »

thanks for the 12mm Pipe tip Pete..

My present TD needs 'sorting' and for my last Xant I remember grinding away at a welding torch tube .... it worked but a hassle

John
User avatar
mooseshaver
Posts: 886
Joined: 27 Apr 2006, 10:50
Location: Cumbria
My Cars:

Post by mooseshaver »

No Hydractive 3+ ? You're not missing much. The button in the middle of the up/down controls is labeled "Sport". Press it and it lights up and makes the suspension go into firmer settings quicker and for longer, but only when the car thinks it needs them. So just pressing it on a straight road does not do anything to the feel, but odly passengers claim to be able to feel the change as soon as its pressed!
I also seem to find the steering changes, but I think I am imagineing that. Seems I can feel more what the front wheels are doing.

Its usefull for looking down at people who only have the Hydravtive 3 model :lol:
C5 III Tourer 2.0 HDi 163 Auto Exclusive
Gone cars.
C5 2.2 HDi Exclusive Estate auto 57. Awesome car. Sadly Could not be fixed by Citroen.
C5 1.6 HDi VTR Estate 56. Traded in.
C5 2.2 HDi SX Estate 02. Drowned in the floods of 09.
C3 1.4 HDi 92 SX 52.
Saxo 1.1 East Coast.
steelcityuk
Posts: 1053
Joined: 03 Jul 2006, 21:51
Location: not applicable
My Cars: not applicable
x 1

Post by steelcityuk »

>>Its usefull for looking down at people who only have the Hydravtive 3 model

Yeah I suppose you need something to say if you only own a SX model.javascript:emoticon(':lol:')
Laughing

Just kidding. Sound very much like Xantia's and XM's setup.

Steve.
not applicable
User avatar
mooseshaver
Posts: 886
Joined: 27 Apr 2006, 10:50
Location: Cumbria
My Cars:

Post by mooseshaver »

steelcityuk wrote:>>Its usefull for looking down at people who only have the Hydravtive 3 model

Yeah I suppose you need something to say if you only own a SX model.javascript:emoticon(':lol:')
Laughing

Just kidding. Sound very much like Xantia's and XM's setup.

Steve.
We SXers look up in awe as the exclusives drive past us. We often move over so they can make progress as is their right.
VTR C5s? Whats that all about. Not an LX, not quite an SX. I remember when VTR meant fast.
C5 III Tourer 2.0 HDi 163 Auto Exclusive
Gone cars.
C5 2.2 HDi Exclusive Estate auto 57. Awesome car. Sadly Could not be fixed by Citroen.
C5 1.6 HDi VTR Estate 56. Traded in.
C5 2.2 HDi SX Estate 02. Drowned in the floods of 09.
C3 1.4 HDi 92 SX 52.
Saxo 1.1 East Coast.
pete_wood_uk
Posts: 180
Joined: 22 Apr 2004, 13:08
Location: Cambs, United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by pete_wood_uk »

mooseshaver wrote: We SXers look up in awe as the exclusives drive past us. We often move over so they can make progress as is their right.
I shall remember to make progress past you then, as is my right, next time I'm back home up North.

Took the shed, sorry, the C5, out at night for the first time last night. The steering headlamps are quite cute (never driven a DS or an SM...). Took me several minutes to turn the dashboard down, though, so's I could see out of the damn windscreen. What would have been so wrong with putting a pot underneath the steering column, anyway? :-). I don't want the dashboard lighting to be computer-controlled, I just want to turn the damn stuff down!

Pete
Xantia HDi 110 Excl Estate 140k
C5 HDi 138 Estate
steelcityuk
Posts: 1053
Joined: 03 Jul 2006, 21:51
Location: not applicable
My Cars: not applicable
x 1

Post by steelcityuk »

The VTR badge puzzled me too. Didn't it come in with the sporty Saxos (VTR and VTS)?

I can't afford to drive my C5 fast enough to overtake other cars....

Steve.
not applicable
User avatar
mooseshaver
Posts: 886
Joined: 27 Apr 2006, 10:50
Location: Cumbria
My Cars:

Post by mooseshaver »

steelcityuk wrote: I can't afford to drive my C5 fast enough to overtake other cars....

Steve.
Try the 2.2! I quite fancy a VTX+ 1.6 when mine dies.
C5 III Tourer 2.0 HDi 163 Auto Exclusive
Gone cars.
C5 2.2 HDi Exclusive Estate auto 57. Awesome car. Sadly Could not be fixed by Citroen.
C5 1.6 HDi VTR Estate 56. Traded in.
C5 2.2 HDi SX Estate 02. Drowned in the floods of 09.
C3 1.4 HDi 92 SX 52.
Saxo 1.1 East Coast.
User avatar
mooseshaver
Posts: 886
Joined: 27 Apr 2006, 10:50
Location: Cumbria
My Cars:

Post by mooseshaver »

[/quote]

I shall remember to make progress past you then, as is my right, next time I'm back home up North.
[/quote]

Just flash your headlights or maybe get a reversed exclusive badge for the front so I know!

Mines the big white Hippo driving along the 66
C5 III Tourer 2.0 HDi 163 Auto Exclusive
Gone cars.
C5 2.2 HDi Exclusive Estate auto 57. Awesome car. Sadly Could not be fixed by Citroen.
C5 1.6 HDi VTR Estate 56. Traded in.
C5 2.2 HDi SX Estate 02. Drowned in the floods of 09.
C3 1.4 HDi 92 SX 52.
Saxo 1.1 East Coast.
Post Reply