fitting HDI engine to xantia TD 99 - possible?

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wonderd
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fitting HDI engine to xantia TD 99 - possible?

Post by wonderd »

How hard will it be to fit an HDI engine to my 99 TD xantia?
If i'm not mistaking, in europe there are HDI engines on a xantia?

Elad.
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Post by DickieG »

Like most thing yes it is possible but would involve quite lot of work when you could simply go out and buy one built at the factory, they were available here. There would be issues with the wiring loom, cooling system, drive shafts, gearbox, fuel supply, the list is quite long.

If you really want to do it the best way would be to buy a donor car, but personally I can't say that I think its worth it.
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Post by Peter.N. »

You would be much better off with a 2.1 td engine, just as much power, similar fuel consumption and no dual mass flywheel or high pressure injection to potentially go wrong and cost you a fortune, and - you can repair it yourself!
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Post by CitroJim »

Peter, I think you and I should form a 2.1TD fan club :lol:

Transplanting a 2.1TD in place of a 1.9TD would be just as problematical as trying to transplant an HDi. Again, a donor vehicle would be needed as there are a lot of detail differences and hardly anything is common between the 1.9 and 2.1 installation. I believe there are even bodyshell differences in the RH inner wing as the engine mount is totally and utterly different.

Electrically, it would be a nightmare.

In fact, you'd need virtually the whole drivetrain and electronics.

Better and easier to swap the whole car really. I'm not sure if it is the same where you are Elad, but in the UK an engine swap makes it a modified car in the eyes of the insurance companies and insurance ends up costing an absolute fortune.
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Post by wonderd »

It's easy for you all to say "just buy a donor car" or "easier to swap the whole car..", the problem is that the importer in israel has never brought an HDI xantia or a 2.1L TD xantia.
So if i want an HDI one or a 2.1L td engine, i need to assemble it myself..

Elad.
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Post by myglaren »

wonderd wrote:It's easy for you all to say "just buy a donor car" or "easier to swap the whole car..", the problem is that the importer in israel has never brought an HDI xantia or a 2.1L TD xantia.
So if i want an HDI one or a 2.1L td engine, i need to assemble it myself..

Elad.
That certainly puts a whole different pespective on it.
No shortage of them here so that scenario doesn't immidiately come to mind.
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Post by Peter.N. »

Hi Jim

Your probably right, I think there the best thing since sliced bread. :lol:

The best version is the purely mechanical one from the XM, even less to go wrong! Although all the electronics an the EPIC type are contained on the engine, with its own loom to the Ecu and the existing throttle cable connects to the throttle pot.

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Post by CitroJim »

Elad,

If you were to go for a 2.1 say, you would need to get the complete running gear as everything is different. You'd even need hoses and silly little things like the radiator expansion tank. You'd also need the 2.1 pedal box as the clutch is hydraulic (different gearbox) and the throttle is an electric "fly-by-wire" type, operating a sensor under the airbox.

You'd need also the gearbox selector cable mecahnism and maybe even the gearstick.

The 2.1 may be a possibility as the same running gear was used in a number of Peugeot and Citroen White Vans along with the Peugeot 406.

It is still a big undertaking though. I remain concerned at the bodyshell differences in the region of the engine mount. below are some pictures of a 2.1TD Xantia engine bay and you can see how different it is..

Image

Image

A slightly easier proposition may be the HDi 90 engine. At least that used the same BE3 gearbox and drive train as the later 1.9TD and did not have an intercooler. I'm not sure of the engine mounting arrangement but again, it may not be so complex as the 110 HDi. Your biggest difficulty with the 90 HDi would be electrical and the need of an HDi fuel tank with the lift pump installed inside it.
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Post by nick »

citrojim wrote: A slightly easier proposition may be the HDi 90 engine. At least that used the same BE3 gearbox and drive train as the later 1.9TD and did not have an intercooler. I'm not sure of the engine mounting arrangement but again, it may not be so complex as the 110 HDi. Your biggest difficulty with the 90 HDi would be electrical and the need of an HDi fuel tank with the lift pump installed inside it.
It may even be possible to use an HDi 110 but with a BE3 box. The Xantia 110 used a different gearbox to the 90, but on some PSA cars like the Xsara both 90 and 110 versions used the same BE4 box (a development of the BE3 I think) with a conventional (non DMF) flywheel and rod operated gearchange. Left hand drive versions even retained a cable operated clutch as far as I know.
Or find a 90 with a Siemens fuel sysem rather than Bosch and it avoids the need for an electric lift pump - Siemens didn't use them.
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Post by DickieG »

citrojim wrote:I believe there are even bodyshell differences in the RH inner wing as the engine mount is totally and utterly different.
Very true Jim, you may notice that 2.1's and Activa's have the series 2 style of front wings that are more splayed out to account for the wider track of the front wheels as well as the different front end under the bumper.
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Post by wonderd »

my xantia is not an activa, and it has automatic gearbox, does it make any difference?
Xantia 2.0L 16V manual trans. 96
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Post by wonderd »

Xantia 2.0L 16V manual trans. 96
Xantia 1.9L TD 99
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Post by deian »

Even with your location, and lack of Hdi, and 2.1s in Israel, I still think it would be easier to import one. Maybe not cheaper, but in the long term, considering you would have to source the engine and ALL the different parts, and put it all together, cost vs time vs. effort... I would still import a 2.1td.

Thats just my advice, it just sounds like a hell of a lot of hassle just to get the engine you want.

At the end of the day, it is possible, of course!

I want to be part of the 2.1 club too 8)
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Post by CitroJim »

wonderd wrote:my xantia is not an activa, and it has automatic gearbox, does it make any difference?
I think it does Elad. Unless you do a conversion to a manual gearbox, it is very unlikely your autobox will work in a satisfactory way with any other engine. They are very carefully optimised for the engine they're designed to work with and not amenable to working with different ones.
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Post by wonderd »

We are not allowed to import any car that's over 2 years old to Israel.
Anyways, if i need to change the auto transmission too then i don't think i will go ahead with it.
Unless i will find a c5 with HDI 110 after an accident or something like that.
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