Xanatia - proboble heate matrix leak

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juraj
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Xanatia - proboble heate matrix leak

Post by juraj »

Hi All

I just bought a xantia off ebay, but i am pretty sure the heater matrix is starting to go, as there is quite a strong smell of coolant when the heat is turned on and the fan switched on too, th esmell is really only monentary after a while it dissapears, then if the fan is swtched off and back on a fter a while the smell is back again just for a while. I guess it could be a slow leak or more likely weep, when the fanruns for a while it any residue gets evaporated and the smell goes.

also it has a greasy film on the windows, my father once had the matrix go on a 1 year ol car - at least the warranty rescued him - it took a while to convive te dealer to fix it as there was no appreciable leak, but a greasy film would develop on the windows, this was i guess coolant condening on the windows.

has any one had any succes with coolant sealing products? or is it dash out time? or ebay time? or could engine bay smells be getting into the car?

bye

all
alan s
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Post by alan s »

It appears that Valeo matrix come these days with a mention in the instructions to whack a bottle of Radweld, Barr's Leaks or similiar in on completion.
I had a whiff starting in my 16V about 3 years ago so dropped a can of Barr's in and it immediately disappeared I gave my Xantia the same treatment at the same time and it was OK until a few months back when that gold plated fitting going to/from the matrix did its usual snap off without warning trick so I by passed it, but up till then, no hassles.
A guy in WA also did it on his Mi16 and had similar results. Being a bit pedantic about his cars, he decided a couple of years down the track to replace the matrix, and reckons it was still as dry as a bone.
These modern leak stoppers work on setting only when they hit the atmosphere so the old bogey of blocking the core etc is really no longer an issue.
Seems from what I've seen and heard that the ones that block the system usually do so because the system was full of crap to start with or they didn't follow manufacturers instruction.
From our experiences, they work a treat.


Alan S
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She said "Put the cat out" She didn't mention it was on fire!!
juraj
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Post by juraj »

hi alan

hey thanks for the quick reply,

yeh i thought so, its just i havent noticed any of these products here in the uk, back when i was 18 the family was driving down to tasmania and before melbourne i hit a kangaroo, poor thing, i can still see it in slow motion, but the radiator got a hammering and leaked like a sieve, being a xe falcon with an iron head we made it to the nearest petrol station and the guy poured in bars i think , the one with the pellets, which i have used since a few times, it was quite amazing plugged the radiator holes perfectly, we ended up doing 3 more weeks in tassie plus the drive back plus a year on it later at home,

the thing is if i dumped a pellet load of bars into the xantias expansion tank would it all just sit in the there for ages? would it clog up? would it get distributed throughout? or is there a more suitable product for these modern cars without direct access to the radiator? or is the only sensible way to drain, mix in a bucket of hot water and refill?

bye and thanks
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Post by juraj »

... also

since there is no visible leaking inside the cabin, carpets not wet either, could this be because as i assume its still just a little wee weep of a leak or is the xantia heater box so well sealed there could easily be a few cups coolant in there? to give me smells and more smells into the future despite a stop leak solution? hahaha
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Post by myglaren »

Starts out like that then all of a sudden - a deluge.
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Post by juraj »

looking forward to it!

ay yay yay
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Post by admiral51 »

Hi juraj
I have just bought a xantia with what i suspected was and turned out to be a leaking matrix.i had all the good intentions of doing a complete proper job but decided that a bottle of barrs fluid would be the easy and cheap option :lol: :lol:
had carpet out last saturday and got it well dried put the barrs in and so far dry as a bone
a tip i was given was to have the engine warm and running and stand the barrs bottle in a jar of warm/hot water for 5 mins before using it.when ready to put in i bled a small quantity of coolant out of the system and was then able to squeeze top rad hose to help the stuff circulate :) :)

got mine from halfords at £4.99 a bottle

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Post by CitroJim »

With all these heater matrixes dying like flies on here, I cannot help thinking we outht to hire a big garage and have a group matrix replacement session :lol: :lol:

We'll need a couple of experienced hands to guide us.

Yesterday, my Activa gave a whiff so that's two of mine needing them now :roll:

Another question, have GSF been warned that Xantia matrixes are soon going to be one of their best sellers :lol:
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Post by admiral51 »

Not so much a garage more like a football sized arena so that each owner can keep their interior together :D :D
Ive heard rumours that Earls Court has a motor show prehaps we can set up our workshop next to the Citroen stand :lol: :lol:

We could even charge Citroen a small fee to train their "mechanics" a superior type of NVQ :) :)

Colin
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Post by juraj »

wow thanks colin

so you just tipped it into the expansion tank then? cool!! or is that hot!?!

looking forward to similar succes,

also colin, you have wet carpets - suggests a reasonable leak, so then i assume you would know if the heater box has some recesses or deeper its which can fill with coolant and sloh around for a while, but i guess since citroen engineers have been installing crappy matrixes since the CX (thats as far back as ican vouch for - the GS is of course air cooled, but of course that relies on the air being heated in the oly engine bay!) they have learnt to design the heater box to drain fully - rather than fit decent matrixes of course, why dont japanese cars suffer from so many of these problems which ought to have been identified and dealt with before WWII at least

ps whats NVQ?

admiral51 wrote:Hi juraj
I have just bought a xantia with what i suspected was and turned out to be a leaking matrix.i had all the good intentions of doing a complete proper job but decided that a bottle of barrs fluid would be the easy and cheap option :lol: :lol:
had carpet out last saturday and got it well dried put the barrs in and so far dry as a bone
a tip i was given was to have the engine warm and running and stand the barrs bottle in a jar of warm/hot water for 5 mins before using it.when ready to put in i bled a small quantity of coolant out of the system and was then able to squeeze top rad hose to help the stuff circulate :) :)

got mine from halfords at £4.99 a bottle

Colin
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Post by juraj »

talking about all this stuff ->

whats the cooling system capacity of a 1.9td xantia? the owners manual nor haynes mention it, ought to know really if you want to mix water and antifreeze to a set ratio,

and on the subject of anti freeze is the xantia one of those modern cars that really needs a special secret formula available from dealers? or can ordinary ethylene glycol and water do the job?

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Post by alan s »

I think you'll find the Barr's marbles are a compressed mix of the product base (I have heard it said it's based on black cracked pepper) which are compressed and held together after adding a soluble oil mix. The liquid in the bottle is also a soluble oil mix which is a water soluble fluid and although the marbles may sit on the top originally, when you read (and follow) the directions, it says to take the car for a run immediately you add them to the system and also suggest on new coolant as the best option, so everything is done on a cold engine.
By the time everything's hot, the marbles should be almost dissolved and the fluid circulating with the coolant. As it cools, the mix starts to leak through any section that is letting coolant through, and as it passes through, then starts to clog up the crack or spit due to the Barr's setting as it hits the cooler atmosphere. It will continue to do this until it stops leaking.
I haven't seen a Xantia matrix (and have no ambitions to see one in anger) but I do know the BX is a fine example of what can be made that can fail at the drop of a hat. The ends aren't soldered on like the cars of old, rather, they are just pushed on, with each sporting about 2 dozen elbows each, meaning that at each end we have approx. 4 dozen pipes of around 1/4" diameter from memory, that push into these elbows at each end. As time goes on, the "O" rings that sit on the end of each tube, can harden or flatten and as a result, this is why they give off that smell of coolant and eventually empty the contents on the front carpet.
I have a maniac son who thinks nothing about ripping the entire wiring harness out of a Citroen and doing modifications etc, hence a dash out is a walk in the park to him.
A few years ago, we bought a series one 16V which was smelling, so out it came and was pulled apart exposing these approx. 8 dozen potential leaks. He simply found a good quality sealer and painted it on both ends and refitted and it's been spot on ever since.
Having seen the problem first hand, I opted for the Barr's and (touch wood) have never had a failure, so maybe, the Barr's or whatever should be looked at as a preferred option prior to destroying the interior to fix something that was worn but really not broken. :wink:
As a bonus, I think you'll find that Barr's is also considered a type of anti corrosive, so whilst I'd still be using the coolant/anti corrosive as recommended, it's handy to know it has that added benefit in the process.


Alan S
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juraj
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Post by juraj »

hey thanks allan and everyone,

i think ill change the coolant in it, so does anyone know the rough capacity of a 1.9TD 1996 model? im guessing about 8 litres, just wanna achieve about a 33% concentration of 'halfords' antifreeze, hehe

bye all
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Post by MikeT »

Haynes recommends Glycol-based antifreeze and soft water mix. Capacities are given as...
7.5L for non-turbo without A/C.
8.5L for non-turbo with A/C and
9.0L for Turbo models

When doing mine, we mixed 50:50 in a jug using demineralised water (I think it was) and just kept premixing and adding until full. Ran the engine with the cap off, massaging the top hose once it the thermostat opened and topped it up to the correct level.

It may be worth adding a quality sealant to the mix as a precaution. There seems to be a correlation between changing coolant/water pump and leaks developing. My theory is that previous sealant gets flushed out and is no longer effective or the improved pressure has breached a weakness.
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Post by juraj »

Mike

You are right, I have noticed that changing coolant seems to cause leaks in old clapped out cars.

Its like friend told me to never put oil flush into old dirty motors as it has a tendency to dislodge 'boogers' which can easily clog oil pathways.

bye
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