cit c3 1.4 hdi 16v exclusive 2002-03

[neotheone]

Problem - Problems starting the car, can take 4 - 5 attempts to start whilst having to pump the acc pedal, engine turns but just dosent fire, and is very erractic but happens more often than not and produces plumes of light grey smoke when starts but after it runs it will start straight away if stopped and restarted - new battery fitted and new fuel filter but the problem still remains. The car still has good performance and after about 3ish mins the smoke stops, but the car sounds like a tractor when starting.

Any advice .. if it was a injector problem would I still get the performance the same goes for compression problem.. any help or advice would be great ...

[steelcityuk]

Can you get the codes read? I would think that you need to find out if it is a sensor or mechanical fault.

Steve.

[neotheone]

Have not giot the codes yet, see the problem was first encountered after my wife ran out of diesel and the RAC restarted, since then its been a pain, thought it was battery - battery was not holding charge (amps) to turn the engine - so new one purchased and ok for two days then started again but needed to pump pedal so I have changed the fuel filter and it was ok until the next morning, will try and get code read. Only other thing I have noticed is that the car sometimes fails to increase in speed and with your foot to the floor it dwindles along at 30 mph and then it will just boost and be normal again. I have had a few problems with this car with a replaced HP fuel pump and other problems but this is getting to be a pain. Where would you recommend getting the codes read citroen or a autotune type person?

[JamesQB]

Sounds like you have the same problem as I have with my C3.

Although I still haven't found out the cause of the problem, I did find out that my mother-in-law's C3 (identical to mine) was suffering the same problems - hard starting with plumes of smoke when it finally did start, tractor noise, lack of power, and hesitation. The Citroen dealership diagnosed the injectors as being the culprit and replaced them under warranty.

If you get to the bottom of the problem before I do, please come back to the forum and post what was done.

James

[myglaren]

Have you tried adding some Forte Diesel System Cleaner to your fuel.
Might just do the trick.

[neotheone]

Gettin codes read at the weekend if there is any, my priming bulb when the engin is off makes a squishing noise and it goes hard when engine is on. Its strange tho after a pain starting it dwindles lacks power and sound cr#p but the all of a sudden jumps to life and varrooommm????
I have tried injector cleaner but to no avail.

need help ..




This is the MK1 16v 1.4 hdi so its a delphi system but I thought if the injectors were blocked that you would not get the performance after the starting problems had cleared - when it eventually goes it fast and move well and would'nt that go for poor compression - you would not get the performance. cheers for your assistance on this

(You sorted yours yet James?)

[neotheone]

anyone know soz just asking as I heared that these can jam or block..

or just that bothered with this car I goin mad..

Cheers

[JamesQB]

I've got the Haynes manual for this car, so I checked and the EGR valve is the Exhaust Gas Recirculation system valve. This is the blurb:

"This system is designed to recirculate small quantities of exhaust gas into the inlet tract, and therefore into the combustion process ... A vacuum-operated valve is used to regulate the quantity of exhaust gas recirculated. The valve is operated by the vacuum supplied by the solenoid valve ... The solenoid valve is located on the lower rear of the cylinder block on the 16-valve engines. To remove the valve, disconnect the two vacuum hoses and the wiring connector. Undo the mounting bracket bolts/nuts and remove the valve from the engine"

My car is similar in the it's very hard (and embarrassing) to start, with plumes of white smoke, sounds terrible and lacks power. But although it improves, it still doesn't seem to have the sheer acceleration it had originally. The other day after it eventually started, the engine management light came on and it sounded like the timing was way out and was only just ticking over. Then 30 seconds later corrected itself and was its usual self.

Scouring the net I have found that we're not the only ones suffering these kind of engine problems, but I can't find even one solution. Reading one chap's trials with this car, he changed all 4 injectors after a Citroen dealership said they must be the problem, but it was the same. Then they said the ECU must be at fault. He's changed a few sensors, the fuel filter and still has no results. His dealership and Citroen UK say they don't know what the problem is or could be, so his last post was saying that he might have to scrap it since it seems even Citroen can't find the trouble!

I did have the local Citroen dealership peruse it, but they claimed it must be the injectors (no checking or testing) and gave me a quote of £1600. They didn't even read the fault codes and the mechanic failed to even clip the air intake tubes together properly, instead using a cable-tie. I cut the tie and clipped them properly myself later.

James

[MikeT]

I don't know which of your cars you're refering to but if you suspect it's ECU related, get the codes read. The light coming on (I think) should indicate a fault has been recorded. This will help you narrow it down to individual circuits. However, if pipes have been left loose, then maybe you're losing turbo pressure to atmosphere?

White smoke indicates unburnt fuel, which, from a cold engine, can be caused by faulty glow plugs.

[JamesQB]

The pipes were the air intake ducts to the air cleaner box, and as I said, I clipped them back together properly, instead of cable-tying them like the Citroen mechanic. The Citroen dealership ruled out glowplugs - as have I - because the symptoms don't mesh. The overall running of the vehicle is bad and it's only easier to start when it's warm.

[neotheone]

I have seen the information with regards to the ecu and injectors on another forum site and they all come up saying that problems still persist after replacing or upgrading the software - the only one I have read about that worked is when he changed the whole fuel line and that solved his problem - would the air flow meter if faulty cause these problems - the injector point u made before and timing the are controlled I think from a injection calculator computer speparate from the ecu and just 2 let u know they are >£580 new direct from citroen france. arrrrr

[steelcityuk]

I guess you already know this but working on the injection systems on HDi's is not really a DIY job due to the extreme pressures, I'm under the impression that the pipes should be replaced if they are removed from the injectors because they don't always seal correctly afterwards.

I think that reading the codes may give you some guidance where to look for the fault. Not all faults light the engine management light and not all faults are logged. It could be as simple as a faulty crank sensor but codes should be logged if it is.

Do these 1.4 HDi's have the same problems as the 2.0 HDi's where the tank (lift) pump breaks up and destroys the rest of the fuel system?

As regards to getting the codes read, a large part is interpreting the results of the session. This seems to be something that some dealers are bad at, specialists are often better if they have the facilities. Where abouts are you?

Be careful buying a code reader, only after a certain year did diesels become ODBII compliant, reading codes off earlier Citroen's needs a ELIT, LEXIA or such like. These tend to be around £1000.

Hope that helps?

Steve.

[nick]

the injector point u made before and timing the are controlled I think from a injection calculator computer speparate from the ecu and just 2 let u know they are >£580 new direct from citroen france. arrrrr

"Injection calculator computer" is just a bit of Franglais, it's what Citroen call the engine ECU.

[neotheone]

I am sure my car is a delphi system and it does not have a lift pump unlike the siemens type system. just checking http://service.citroen.com/ for detail as I cannot hear a lift pump operating but might not due to location. It seems the first stop now is to get code read is a must but where? citroen are cr#p around hear (runcorn, cheshire area)

[nick]

I would recommend a Bosch diesel specialist if there's one near you. In my experience they are far better and cheaper than a Citroen dealer.

Diesel Bob in Blackburn is supposed to be good, or so I hear, and they shouldn't be too far from Runcorn?