Power steering failure following Aux belt replacement, Fixed

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masood_ilyas
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Power steering failure following Aux belt replacement, Fixed

Post by masood_ilyas »

This query relates to a 1999 Citroen Xantia, 1.9TD Automatic with AC and 144K on the clock.
Yesterday the Auxiliary belt was shred into cheese strings by the crank pulley because of the bolt that holds the tension roller broke up inside the cast iron housing. There were also signs of failing bearing on the tension roller, so decided to replace it with a new one. The dealer charged £115 for the belt and new tension roller!!
Now that the belt and tension roller has been replaced, to my surprise I found that Power steering is almost non existent. The belt tension is as hard as I dare go fearing premature failure of alternator bearing and possibly the same for hydraulic pump. I have turned from lock to lock several times with no improvement. This car does have “hydra active” and does not sink when the engine is switched off, but will sink when started first thing in the morning. I mention this in case it was affecting the steering circuit.

The other symptoms are: The suspension is a bit slower when raising or lowering, no power steering but if you apply force and turn the steering wheel it will eventually improve and start moving and turn but is really hard at first. Not suitable for driving on the road as it will not change direction as soon as I would desire. It is the same whether turning clockwise or anticlockwise. Increasing the RPM from idle to 1600 does help a little.

So where have I gone wrong. The brakes are fine and suspension is ok if only a bit slow but they are fed from a separate output on the pump. The cit-pr network drawing for steering circuit show a simple flow to the ram and back into the hydraulic fluid reservoir. Every thing was working fine until the belt went which makes guessing the fault more difficult.

Is there any recommended way of removing airlock in case it managed to get in when the hydraulic pump had to be taken out for replacing tension roller. Or have I just had the misfortune of a simultaneous failure of hydraulic pump and aux belt. Or is it really as simple as increasing the tension to the point when there is no more give at all.

Any advice will be appreciated.
Last edited by masood_ilyas on 07 Apr 2008, 13:19, edited 1 time in total.
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

Hi -

The pump must basically be working since the pressure output for suspension and brakes is functioning.

On a '99 I belive there is not a chance to swap the 2 pump pressure outputs thereby connecting the weaker suspension ouput to the power steering, because the 2 rigid pipes have different union types.
But one thing you MUST re-assure yourself is that any pipe seal was removed from the pump pipe port - and fitted on the pipe end - before the pipe was re-conncted. Otherwise you can bite your own nose that the seal will most likely twist and block the pipe output :idea:

The 2 pressure outputs have however 1 thing in common : they both relies on the pump to securely suck in the needed amount of LHM from the feed hose conncted to the reservoir.
This hose is known to develop leaks which the allows the pump to suck in air, making the pressure outputs questionable in function.

Check the feed hose really careful for any surface hairline crackings - especially over the studs. Also be sure the hoseclamps are effective and fits evenly around the hose circumference. You can use any standard stainless steel hoseclamps of good quality, as long as they are not too rigid.

Note that this feed hose is prohibitie expensive as new genuine part :roll:
Around the £130 mark :shock:

Hope you find the problem :wink:
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
citronut
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Post by citronut »

i would try more tension a bit at a time, as these belts do have to be incredibly tight compared to to old V belts
regards malcolm
slim123
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Post by slim123 »

I wouldn't tension the belt too much, the idea of running a multi "V" belt is that they do not have to be run so tight as they will not slip so easy when a little loose. The pump has no bearing in the front, just a cheap teflon coated bush, running an overtight belt will certainly cause premature wear in the bush.

The pump used is realy like having two pumps in one box! The only bit that they share is the feed pipe.

Pump No 1, is the part nearest to the pulley, this is a 2 piston pump and supplys pressure to the suspension and brakes, this part is regulated by the regulator to deliver 145 to 175-

Pump No 2, is the part furthest from the pulley and is a 6 piston pump, this bit supplys pressure, but more importantly full flow at 150- constant to the pinion valve and the steering ram, it has it's own internal regulator.

One popular symptom of pump failure is heavy steering, as the steering does rely upon the pump working flat out, so any weakness will be picked up in the steering. This will normally show itself as heavy steering intermittant, usually worse first thing in the morning when all is cold.

what is a worry is that all was working well before the belt problems. When the belt shredded, did any bits go in behind the pump pulley? This in itself will get caught in the seal and cause it to suck air.

As Anders states, it would be a good idea to check for any air ingress through the suction pipe and dont forget to check the LHM level in the reservoir, any air caught in the pump during the refitting would have worked its way out after a couple of minutes running, so if the problem is air, it must still be getting in somewhere.

In my humble experience, it certainly would not be the first time that a shredded belt has stuffed the pump.

Regards
Slim.
masood_ilyas
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It was the air getting in

Post by masood_ilyas »

Thank you every one for your advice, it worked, the fault has now been sorted.

Anders, Slim you were right it was a fine crack at the hyd fluid input to the pump, just where the funny citroen clip goes. The crack must have developed when the pump was removed and went unnoticed during replacement as it was hidden from view. For the moment I have sleeved it over the existing pipe with industrial adhesive alluminium tape and used a standard jubilee clip.

The dealer got me over a barrel for the tension roller as I had no alternative, but I'll be damned if I pay another £100 for a pipe which I intend to fix with a 10p heat shrink sleeve.

It is so nice to have the power steering back. :lol:


Thank you every one once again for your advice.
jeremy
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Post by jeremy »

Can't you simply cut the end of the pipe off and re-fit it with a jubilee (worm drive) clip? I did my BX one as the end looked a bit ropey and I didn't think I'd geta seal.
jeremy
masood_ilyas
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Post by masood_ilyas »

Jeremy,
The crack does go up to the point where the pipe has shaped bend, so cutting is not an option. there is a short stiffer plastic from the bend onwards.
Cutting will also make it shorter and put stress on the pump inlet pipe which needs to be treated with respect. A colleague at work did try this and loosened the pipe in the process. His steering would go hard intermittently a replacement pump and a pipe extension cured that.

Given my car is entering its middle ages (9 years + 144K miles, its joints are starting to creak) its rubber pipes are gradually going brittle, so perhaps a new short pipe at the pump input is in order. I am sure I saw some at Halfrauds which will be much cheaper than one from the stealer.
Heat shrink sleeves is the other option but that will be a very short term cure.

Regards
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