1.9 Td against Hdi

XantiaMan · Post by **XantiaMan** » 16 Mar 2008, 21:05

Ford use the 1.6 HDI not the 2.0 HDI PSA unit the Ford TDCI engine (also used in the Transit and available as a 2.0, 2.2 and 2.5) has no relation to the PSA lump.

nick · Post by **nick** » 16 Mar 2008, 21:53

The latest 2007 onwards model Mondeo does now use the 1997cc 2.0 HDi badged as TDCi. The mk3 Mondeo used the 1998cc Ford engine.

Peter, I appreciate what you're saying about the problem of DIY on common rail engines and its something I have considered as I do tend to keep cars for several years and work on them myself wherever possible. I don't think the failure rates are actually very high, there are plenty of HDi vans and taxis around with well over 250k on the clock, but if they do fail it can certainly be expensive.

The Xantia and Xsara HDi do at least avoid the dual mass flywheel, it was only introduced with the C5 !

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 16 Mar 2008, 22:35

XantiaMan583 wrote:Ford use the 1.6 HDI not the 2.0 HDI PSA unit the Ford TDCI engine (also used in the Transit and available as a 2.0, 2.2 and 2.5) has no relation to the PSA lump.

Correct! The wikipedia articles on the subject seem to suggest otherwise (although incorrectly). To make things more complicated, the Mondeo got a 2.2 transit van derived TDCI and will get a PSA derived one in the future.

nick wrote: The Xantia and Xsara HDi do at least avoid the dual mass flywheel, it was only introduced with the C5 !

Thats incorrect. The dual mass flywheel came with the 2.0 HDI 110, so if you've got an 2.0 HDI 110, you've got a dual mass flywheel. Both the Xantia and Xsara get the HDI 110.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 16 Mar 2008, 23:13

There are obviously a lot of you out there with superior knowledge to mine, and I bow to that. My information has mostly been obtained from the net although I do have a couple of friends, one with a Mondeo and another with a 607 and both have had expensive engine trouble. You obviously only hear about the problem cars and I am probably biased by the fact that the only two common rail engines I know in the flesh as it were, have been troublesome. As you say Nick, there are plenty of high milers out there, but the thought of a potential problem that I can't deal with, puts me off somewhat. I think I will stick with my 2.1 IDI for as long as possible.

I have ben running diesels since 1960 and have always been able to repair them, so maybe you can understand my concern.

Peter.

nick · Post by **nick** » 16 Mar 2008, 23:19

Thats incorrect. The dual mass flywheel came with the 2.0 HDI 110, so if you've got an 2.0 HDI 110, you've got a dual mass flywheel. Both the Xantia and Xsara get the HDI 110.

No, have a look on service.citroen.com - neither the Xantia or Xsara HDi in either 90 or 110 form had dual mass flywheels.

The DMF was introduced on the 110 version of the C5.

Post by **elma** » 17 Mar 2008, 12:32

Peter. n you seem to do most of you're maintenance yourself.

I have avoided the 2.1Td in the Xantia forever because it is supposedly impossible to work on. I think you actually have to remove the engine to change the starter motor in the Xantia.

In your Xms is there space to work on them properly?
I know theres a lot more room but I haven't really had a good look.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 17 Mar 2008, 12:48

Hi Elma

When the 2.1 first came out it in the XM was regarded as horrendously complicated but compared with current cars its simple! Its not the easiest engine in the world to work on but is very reliable. Most will need a head gasket at around 150k, but having replaced it, you can look forward to at least another 150k of trouble free motoring, or with the new laminated steel gasket that I fitted, probably a lot more.

It does state in the Haynes manual that you have to remove the engine to change the head gasket, but I did mine in situ - not easy but certainly worth the effort. The starter I don't know about, but its certainly not to difficult to remove from the XM.

A well maintained 2.1 will run almost forever, the last XM I sold had covered 292k and was still going well, and they a capable of better mpg then the 1.9 and of course better performance. I have run six 2.1 XMs over the last 12 years or so and have had no major engine problems apart from the head gasket.

Post by **CitroJim** » 17 Mar 2008, 12:52

elma wrote:I have avoided the 2.1Td in the Xantia forever because it is supposedly impossible to work on.

No, not at all, in fact some items are actually easier to get to than on the 1.9TD.

The only major component you cannot remove in-situ is the cylinder head although I believe someone on here has with a few skinned knuckles.

Having done a 1.9TD head job, removing the engine complete would actually have made the job easier so I don't see this as too much of a disadvantage for the 2.1.

I have to fully agree with Peter that the 2.1 is the engine of choice. It's a beaut

Post by **elma** » 17 Mar 2008, 13:32

So,
contary to popular belief the 2.1 is ok to work on?

Does this include all jobs.
Out of all this is anything really difficult?

Full service
Changing cambelt (compared to 1.9td)
Changing alt belt
Alternator
Glow plugs

Can't think of anything else engines need at the miinute

If they weren't so bad I'd be quite interested in a 2.1 Xantia.
Maybe even an Xm

Post by **CitroJim** » 17 Mar 2008, 13:42

elma wrote: Full service
Changing cambelt (compared to 1.9td)
Changing alt belt
Alternator
Glow plugs

A full Service is no different to a 1.9TD. Aux belt, the same. Cambelt, very little different, just a slightly different tensioner, more on the lines of an early XU petrol engine.

Alternator is as painful as an Activa. A bit more tricky than a 2.1TD but read how I did an Activa and that's how to do it.

Glow plugs are, once the inlet runnrs are removed (two bolts and the EGR pipe clip), dead easy as there is no bulky Injection Pump in the way.

The only downside of the 2.1 is the Lucas EPIC electronic fly by wire pump but if you run on good diesel they're reliable and work well, giving supurb economy.

The accumulator sphere is easier to get to, as is the oil filter.

You will not be disappointed with a 2.1TD at all Elma

Barbarian · Post by **Barbarian** » 17 Mar 2008, 13:51

The 1.9TD can run on 100% veg oil. Id like to see that done in an HDI

Post by **Peter.N.** » 17 Mar 2008, 14:39

The only job that is substantially more difficult is the head gasket, but as you are unlikely to have to do it more than once, if at all, I wouldn't worry to much about it.

The XM's all had mechanically governed fuel pumps untill '96, it wouldn't be to difficult to fit one to a Xantia.