MOT rules

[MikeT]

My MOT expires 12th March and I notice it's possible to have it tested one calendar month in advance and, if it passes, the new MOT will not begin until the current MOT expiry date.

Fine, but what if I take mine tomorrow and it fails (which I suspect it will due to a minor fuel [SVO] leak, for instance) and I cannot effect a timely repair? Where do I stand legally? Would I forfeit the last few weeks MOT priveleges or can I still drive the car on the road? Does anyone know the definitive rules in this scenario, it's a very grey area IMO.

[CitroJim]

This is a tricky one Mike

A fail sheet is issued if you fail and is computer generated so VOSA know you have submitted the vehicle for a test and it has failed to meet the minumum standard for an MOT pass. So, from that you can infer that as it has been produced on the same computer that issues a pass certificate, the authorities are likely to be aware.

But, as you say, the old MOT is still current and valid. In it not specifically revoked by an early fail. My 1.9 failed a couple of weeks ago and the old certificate still had three weeks to run. No comment was made on either the fail certificate nor the still-vaild old certificate.

As you say though, it's a grey area. It would imagine it all comes down to the nature of the failure. Back in the old days, there was a box where the tester could make comments about a car being dangerous in its present condition in his/her opinion. I'm not sure if that is still the case on the new fail certificate but I guess it is. I'd say if you took it and it failed on something thought to be dangerous in the opinion of the MOT tester and you continued to drive with the old MOT still valid and something nasty happened, you'd be on very sticky territory. In fact, you are breaking the law. If though, it failed on something minor then the situation is likely to be different and may be disregarded depending on circumstances.

Now, it is interesting that when my car subsequently passed, I was handed back the new pass certificate, the old one (still current actually) and the fail certificate, which did not appear to have been revoked. So, had something nasty happened to me in the four days between fail and subsequent pass, how would it have stood. Was the car a technical failue and thus technically illegal during those few days?

I wonder if there is such a thing as an MOT forum to answer such a poser or if it would be worth a call to VOSA for a ruling...

[CitroJim]

Mike, a Postscript.

I've just pulled up the history of my 1.9.

Here it is. You can see the fail is recorded. Also note that advisories are recorded too so I wonder what would happen if you had some bother that could be attributed to an advisory item causing an incident?

Also, on the back of the fail sheet, it says in rather convoluted terms that it could be illegal to use a failed vehicle..

You'll also see they know the dates and the mileage you covered whilst the fail certificate was in force...

The asterisks are mine (for obvious reasons!)




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Most Recent Vehicle Details and Test Summary applicable to this test number.
Registration mark: L******
Make/Model: CITROEN / XANTIA
Colour: BLUE
VIN/Chassis No: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]***********
Approximate date of first use: 17/09/1993
Type of fuel: Diesel


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Date of test: 15/02/2008
Certificate issued (Pass)
Odometer reading: 187,995 Miles
Test number: 620806848064
Test expiry date: 24/02/2009


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Full Test History, starting with first recorded vehicle and test results


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Registration mark: L******
Make/Model: CITROEN / XANTIA
Colour: BLUE
VIN/Chassis No: VF7**************[VIN obfuscated, can be read by forum staff]***************
Approximate date of first use: 17/09/1993
Type of fuel: Diesel


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Date of test: 31/01/2007
Certificate issued (Pass)
Odometer reading: 184,057 Miles
Test number: 361811937070
Test station name: JUST MOTS (NEWPORT PAGNELL)
Test station number: 6570B0
Test station telephone number: 01908611050
Test class: IV
Test expiry date: 24/02/2008
Advisory Notice issued
Both fronts brake hose slightly deteriorated (3.6.B.4d)
Oil leak


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Date of test: 12/02/2008
Certificate issue refused (Fail)
Odometer reading: 187,990 Miles
Test number: 141973748093
Test station name: MOTESTS
Test station number: 1ALT31
Test station telephone number: 01908 210055
Test class: IV
Reason(s) for refusal to issue Certificate
Rear fluid suspension levelling valve leaking (2.4.D.2)
No Advisory Notice issued


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Date of test: 15/02/2008
Certificate issued (Pass)
Odometer reading: 187,995 Miles
Test number: 620806848064
Test station name: MOTESTS
Test station number: 1ALT31
Test station telephone number: 01908 210055
Test class: IV
Test expiry date: 24/02/2009
No Advisory Notice issued

[rory_perrett]

Certainly a grey area.

As I understand it 2 things come into play here. The requirement to have a valid MOT certificate for your vehicle and the construction and use regs.

On count 1 you will still have a valid MOT certificate for your vehicle so no problem there.

On count 2 regardless of whether your vehicle has a valid MOT certificate or not it has to be roadworthy and comply with construction and use regs. If it is not roadworthy regardless of whether you know because it has just failed a test or you didn't know because you haven't checked and it hasn't just been MOT'd the results are much the same.

As they say the existance of a valid MOT cert is not evidence of the condition of the vehicle, it only relates to the vehicle at the time it was tested. You could drive out of the test centre with your pass cert, stop round the corner and stick a set of bald tyres back on.

Where I think it would make things worse is if you had knowingly driven a defective vehicle away from an MOT and had an accident that resulted in you being prosecuted, I imagine a judge would take a particularly dim view of your actions.

There are MOT fail items that do not make a vehicle dangerous - damaged numberplates come to mind.

Interestingly the rules about what you can and can't do after failing (when you don't have a valid cert) are just as grey. You are allowed to drive a non taxed and tested vehicle to and from a pre-booked MOT. OK you won't get hauled up for failing to have and display a tax disc or for not having a valid MOT but if your vehicle does not comply with the regs I'm sure they will have you.

[citronut]

im sure all the while you have the current MOT you can get away with useing in a public highway,

also if you were driving to or from a pre/booked MOT or even to a place to have the work carried out with no current MOT or ROAD TAX, you must still be coverd by insurance
regards malcolm

[MikeT]

.....In fact, you are breaking the law....

Which law is that Jim? I'm not disputing you, just asking if it is indeed fact and therefore something that I must abide by?

You are allowed to drive a non taxed and tested vehicle to and from a pre-booked MOT. OK you won't get hauled up for failing to have and display a tax disc or for not having a valid MOT but if your vehicle does not comply with the regs I'm sure they will have you.

Ah, yes, I forgot about the C&U Regs. Cheers Rory. I realise I'm on thin ice if something unfortunate were to happen, such as a non-fault accident etc and it would be wise to have the car transported away. But, continuing the scenario I used, could I sell the car as having a valid (albeit only 3 three weeks) MOT or would I actually be selling a car without?

[MikeT]

im sure all the while you have the current MOT you can get away with useing in a public highway

With the above mentioned caveats, that is my understanding too but I wonder if I am, in fact, expected to only exercise that right t to travel to/from a place of test/repair, rather than carrying on with business as usual by assuming the current MOT is still legal and valid.

[rory_perrett]

Splitting hairs, but the term is usually current or MOT'd to..., and technically that would be true - back to my comment about a valid MOT cert not being an indication of condition. However, and you just knew that was coming, we would be into the sale of goods act and and how you described the vehicle. Depending on the fault(s), is it of merchantable quality/ fit for purpose? - Could you describe it as roadworthy, are you knowingly selling a dangerous product? If you are a trader you have to be more careful, but even as a private seller if you were to describe it as roadworth knowing the brakes weren't working someone would probably be after you.

After all ads along the lines of Car For Sale, short T&T, needs some work for test appear all over the place.

Thinking about, it all an MOT really says is "This car had a safety inspection in the last year and you don't need to have another one done until 12 months after the last one".

As it is all computerised now and you can look online to find when a car last had its check the "MOT Cert" is really just a hangover from the past, although it helps to have a piece of paper to hand at sale time.

[rory_perrett]

Citrojim

Just read your first post in this topic - big brother or what? While it shows you have driven 5 miles between tests what it doesn't show is at what point in that 5 miles the fault was rectified. I used to do over 4,000miles a month (In an old BX great car...happy days... but I digress). I could have taken the car in for test a month early, failed, fixed it straight away and then driven for another 4,000+ miles before getting it retested and passing.

Although it makes you wonder if the technology obsessed, no intelligent human intervention authorities at the DVLA will chuck the MOT centre postcode and the vehicle's registered keeper's postcode into a route planner and send an instant fine out to anyone who has driven their car more than twice the distance between MOT Station and "home" address between tests. Sorry getting a bit off the point.

[CitroJim]

While it shows you have driven 5 miles between tests what it doesn't show is at what point in that 5 miles the fault was rectified.

The scary thing is Rory, that mileage is wrong.. Between tests I drove over 100 miles to thoroughly test the height corrector, which incidentially was perfect, the MOT Tester just mistook my over-zealous lubrication of it for a leak He mis-read the speedo...

Which law is that Jim? I'm not disputing you, just asking if it is indeed fact and therefore something that I must abide by?

As Rory says Mike, C and U regs Can that be considered law-breaking? I guess it can as they can fine and award points for breaches of C and U regs..

[CitroJim]

Mike,

At the end of the day, your car will still have a valid MOT certificate and thus is legal to use. On C and U regs, if they wanted, they could most likely get most of us on that between MOTs I drove my 2.1 for months with a busted handbrake cable. I still had a functional handbrake on one wheel but technically a cut and dried MOT failure.

More to the point, how's your car looking? How bad is the fuel leak? Is the pinion valve still weeping a bit of LHM?

In my experience, a tidy, well-presented car is three parts of the battle at MOT time. Check all the obvious things and if they're all good you're 99% there.. I reckon if they see a well maintained and well looked-after car, a few small details will be overlooked, based on the fact you look the sort who will fix them in due course, irrespective of MOT requirements.

I've sent you a PM on a different matter entirely..

[citronut]

i think the MOT tester is ment to judge the mileage between faliure and re/testting a vehicle prsented to them, if the mileage is excesive i belive the tester is ment to carry out the MOT test in full again, even if it has still got a current MOT

[citronut]

i think the MOT tester is ment to judge the mileage between faliure and re/testting a vehicle prsented to them, if the mileage is excesive i belive the tester is ment to carry out the MOT test in full again, even if it has still got a current MOT
regards malcolm

[MikeT]

I was under the impression that if you left the car at test centre for repair, they only have to re-test the failure. Otherwise, if you take the car to another place of repair, they are then obliged to re-test the whole car.

Although it's up to each garage to charge what they like (EDIT: up to a max), you'll often see this reflected in the re-test fees to attract more custom.

Either way, I've made my mind up. I'll get the MOT done asap, which probably means Monday. I expect it to fail and then I can decide if it's worth keeping on the road or not.

Thanks everyone!

[citronut]

the car has to be re/presented by the end of 10 working days not including bank holls and weekends,

if it is they only have to check the items it failled on, pluss the garage i use just check all the lights are still working,

but as i said earlyer if the car has done a high amount of miles between the faliure and re/test they can do a full MOT again and charge the full fee

regards malcolm