Veg oil heads up .....37p per litre

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RugbyPete
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Post by RugbyPete »

Well, Im on the veg oil finally!

Slapped in 12 litres for £8ish at asda, came home, got out and its smelling of chips, lovely!

We'll see how well it starts, there is some power loss but who cares when its cheaper.

Missed the bookers run, but we'll try one saturday, otherwise i'll opt for tesco 3 litre cans, took no time to fill... did it without a funnel, just took the lid off and quick as you can say Crisp&Dry the containers openings flat against the inlet and oils glugging into the tank!

Kinda liked people watching, hoping it made them think outside the box a bit

Beats 1.09, father in laws off to tesco too...
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Post by davek-uk »

The old XUD is good for an average 40-45mpg. Veg oil reduces this slightly, maybe 2-3mpg less. Even boosted I was getting 42mpg on veg. Lately this has dropped and I can't decide if it was my latest fuel pump adjustment or just old age - at 188k I guess the injectors could do with retipping.

Reading threads on the HDi, I'm doubtful if it gets many mpg better on average.

Dave
Pug Rifter long (20) - 41mpg - Gutsy for a 1.5!
Xantia 1.9 TD Temp.2 Break (97) - 208K@42mpg - Resting again.
Berlingo Multispace 1.6 16v (51) - 184K@36mpg - My shed! Still runs 15° retarded...
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Post by Toby_HDi »

Hmm very tempting to sell the HDi then and go for an XUD. Am I right to assume the Peugeot 406 uses the same engines? (D8 with a 1.9 and 2.1 diesels?)

Are there any other cars I could perhaps use veg oil in?
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Post by davek-uk »

I know I'm going to miss some out but the 1.9 XUD unit was used extensively throughout the PSA empire. You'll find them in Cit BX, ZX, Xsara, Xantia, Multispace and the Pug 205, 305, 309, 405 and 406. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSA_XUD. Plenty to choose from.

Dave
Pug Rifter long (20) - 41mpg - Gutsy for a 1.5!
Xantia 1.9 TD Temp.2 Break (97) - 208K@42mpg - Resting again.
Berlingo Multispace 1.6 16v (51) - 184K@36mpg - My shed! Still runs 15° retarded...
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Post by jgra1 »

Pete buy a bradle ?sp , think of the bottle as being your favourite politician etc, and stab it repeatedly ;) oil flows very quick then

John :D
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Post by steelcityuk »

If buying a PSA engined car for veg pick carefully. The 1.9 XUD is said to be sluggish in a 406 compared to a 405 due to the increased weight, how this compares with a Xantia I don't know but I would think a Xantia is a similar weight to a 406. A lot of the 2.1s are fitted with Lucas Epic pumps and they'll die pretty fast using veg. Older XM 2.1s used to use Bosch pumps but apart from them I don't know if anything else does.

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Post by Cpt_Spalding »

Toby_HDi wrote:
Are there any other cars I could perhaps use veg oil in?
Try the vegoil/diesel forum too. There's a variety of car owners in there using veg. Off the top of my head, the big 2.8 & 3.0 litre Jap offroaders (Mitsi, Isuzu etc), Older Merc 2.5 & 3.0 l diesels, older BMW 5.25d, Vauxhalls with the Isuzu diesel unit, Mondeo 1.8 diesels. There are more.

The common thread with these would appear to be the Bosch mechanical fuel pumps.

If I were you though I'd carry on with the HDI for the time being if you're happy with how the car is running & your maintenance costs are ok.

You might end up like me, with a cash drain, constantly repairing & replacing stuff (see my post on Exhaust - DIY? :cry: ).

Also, the rate Veg Oil prices have been rising lately, (50ppl - 75ppl in the space of a couple of months) I'd want to monitor that situation for a couple of months, see how it stabilises.
'98 Xantia 1.9TD Tempt 2 Estate.
Had an M reg long ago as co. car & been curious about owning again ever since.
What have I done????
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Post by MikeT »

Both Sainsbury's and Tesco's still supply Pura @ 56ppl but it's not usually stocked and when it does appear, it's just 10 or 20 bottles then nothing again for a few weeks so I tend to pop in every time I'm passing. I get the feeling they're playing control freaks since they've greedily doubled the price of their own "economy" brand in less than a year making it 50% dearer than the branded Pura.

Would it be possible to cut out the middleman, so to speak, and get it from a wholesaler?
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Post by KP »

MikeT its been asked before about Pura and KTC but they have raised their prices too so theyu are making a loss on them.

There is a place near York that sells Rapeseed oil at 65p/litre but its minimum order of 1000 litres and you need your own way to tanker it home so its not feasible for one person on their own to do :( though i wish i could!
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Post by Toby_HDi »

Think I will stay with the HDi, only thing I worry about is I plan to give it a good going over soon which will cost around £400 methinks. So wonder if it's worth it on the Xantia.

Will monitor prices and see how they go.

With regards to the car. I was thinking of the 2.1 in a 406. Or will this have a Lucas pump? If not maybe an old Merc or BMW. Though have to say the XM is tempting for the character.
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Post by CitroJim »

Toby_HDi wrote:With regards to the car. I was thinking of the 2.1 in a 406. Or will this have a Lucas pump?
A Lucas pump I'm afraid Toby and it's the EPIC fully electronic job and reputedly very sensitive to damage from even small ratios of diesel/veg. Shame as otherwise it's a really great pump, as are all Lucas pumps.

The early 2.1 XMs did have a Bosch mechanical pump but they're rarer than hens teeth. Later 2.1 XMs are EPIC too.

You could look for a 2.5 XM but they have their own problems that somewhat overshadow the fact they have a Bosch pump!

For more info have a look at the forum at http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php

The question of transplanting a 1.9TD mechanical pump onto a 2.1 remains tantalisingly unresolved but in theory could be done.. One day if mine ever packs up I might just find out..
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Post by Toby_HDi »

citrojim wrote: A Lucas pump I'm afraid Toby and it's the EPIC fully electronic job and reputedly very sensitive to damage from even small ratios of diesel/veg. Shame as otherwise it's a really great pump, as are all Lucas pumps.

The early 2.1 XMs did have a Bosch mechanical pump but they're rarer than hens teeth. Later 2.1 XMs are EPIC too.

You could look for a 2.5 XM but they have their own problems that somewhat overshadow the fact they have a Bosch pump!

For more info have a look at the forum at http://www.vegetableoildiesel.co.uk/forum/index.php

The question of transplanting a 1.9TD mechanical pump onto a 2.1 remains tantalisingly unresolved but in theory could be done.. One day if mine ever packs up I might just find out..
That's a shame. I suppose I could live with a 1.9 if needed. Think I would prefer the 2.1 though.

What are the other problems with the 2.5 XM?

Will have a look at that site, cheers

What would I be looking at being involved? It seems a tempting project.
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Post by CitroJim »

Toby_HDi wrote:What are the other problems with the 2.5 XM?
Conceptually, theyre similar to the 2.1 with a 12V head but they also have a balancer shaft set-up driven by a toothed belt so these have, in effect, two cambelts. They are apparantly very tricky to work on, they're rare and spares are not that thick on the ground. Against that though, they're a great engine, just like the 2.1, which I must say, shares some of the 2.5s foliblies :lol:
Toby_HDi wrote: What would I be looking at being involved? It seems a tempting project.
Tempting because the 2.1 has a lot more grunt and potentially better fuel economy. It's a slogger and has a totally different (less enchanting) character to the 1.9TD. Some hate the 2.1 because it just delivers power with no flair, It has, for instance, no feeling of coming on boost whatsoever. It's not so keen to rev high either. It's all but done by 3000rpm. I love 'em though!

At the very basic, a swap of pump, pipes and injectors. That's the easy bit. The electrics will be a challage as the EPIC ECU does far more than just control the pump. It runs the speedo, tacho and I believe, the temperature gauge :roll: along with the glowplug controller. As the EPIC is fly-by-wire, a conventional throttle cable would have to be installed.

If a 1.9TD pump were used, it would need adjusting for fuel delivery etc. Trial and error could do it by observing smoke and knowing how a 2.1 feels.

As I say, there is much speculation on the viability of this mod but no one seems to have tried it and given a definitive answer.
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Post by steelcityuk »

Toby_HDi wrote:
What are the other problems with the 2.5 XM?
Well, they have 3 radiators, 1 main, 1 for the intercooler and the water to air intercooler itself. If not looked after they overheat and crack the head. Access is a problem as is the rarity of spares. To give you an example of those points, to remove the plenum chamber from the intake manifold means removing maybe 20 bolts or so, wrestling with the induction pipework then getting right under the car and reaching up and forward behind the front subframe next to the exhaust with a long reach socket set to release the EGR pipe clip and you'll be up to your elbow at this stage! As for the price of spares a secondhand cylinder head could cost around £400 if you can find one. Ask me how I know...

They are however extremely torquey and nice to drive. Also 'any' 2.5 can have cruise control added by fitting a switch and a control stalk. All the electronics are already in the pump and the wiring is usually already fitted.

Steve.
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Post by Toby_HDi »

steelcityuk wrote:
Toby_HDi wrote:
What are the other problems with the 2.5 XM?
Well, they have 3 radiators, 1 main, 1 for the intercooler and the water to air intercooler itself. If not looked after they overheat and crack the head. Access is a problem as is the rarity of spares. To give you an example of those points, to remove the plenum chamber from the intake manifold means removing maybe 20 bolts or so, wrestling with the induction pipework then getting right under the car and reaching up and forward behind the front subframe next to the exhaust with a long reach socket set to release the EGR pipe clip and you'll be up to your elbow at this stage! As for the price of spares a secondhand cylinder head could cost around £400 if you can find one. Ask me how I know...

They are however extremely torquey and nice to drive. Also 'any' 2.5 can have cruise control added by fitting a switch and a control stalk. All the electronics are already in the pump and the wiring is usually already fitted.

Steve.
Cheers, like the fact you know I want cruise control :)

Sounds like my V6 Vectra to work on.

Question is then: prices permitting (will wait and watch) is it worth selling my X reg Xantia HDi to buy a XM (or other car that is capable) to run on Veg Oil?
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