Mighty Xantia 1.9TD suffers power loss at Hill starts
Moderator: RichardW
Is stephens engineering in north london, just off the north circular, sure we used them for bits and pieces when I ran a garage back in the mid nineties. They were good, not cheap, but then you get what you pay for, especially with something complicated like an autobox, and especially the al4 box.
Xantia 2.0SX estate (now sold)
Xantia 1.9 TD SX hatch 102K (all old MOT'S) and working A/C.(Sold to forum member, time to save for a C5)
2007 Berlingo Multispace 1.4i Forte, bought in November with genuine 27k miles, now on 39799 miles.
Xantia 1.9 TD SX hatch 102K (all old MOT'S) and working A/C.(Sold to forum member, time to save for a C5)
2007 Berlingo Multispace 1.4i Forte, bought in November with genuine 27k miles, now on 39799 miles.
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masood_ilyas
- Posts: 121
- Joined: 01 May 2001, 00:01
- Location: United Kingdom
- My Cars:
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Hi everybody. Noobie here.
I have a 99 Xantia 1.9TD automatic, with what sounds like the same problem as this thread. (lots of googling and searching before this thread was found
)
Sometimes it's fine, but sometimes the car is not capable of driving up a kerb or a raised manhole cover, from a standing start.
While my right foot is buried in the carpet, the car behaves as though I've only pressed one quarter or so of pedal travel.
Pulling out onto busy motorway junction roundabouts is now dangerous, as it can take five seconds or so to build up to 10mph, but from then upwards the car goes as it should.
After 2days in his garage, my local mechanic suggested it was 'turbo lag' so I found a diesel specialist, but he was puzzled too. He drove it out of his premises onto a busy 50mph A-road and scared himself.
This thread read so well, and I was hoping for a twiddle this or replace that hose type solution. Spending £1460 on a new gearbox isn't within my means.
Everything on the car works just fine, apart from this intermittent problem from a standstill.
Can anyone explain the mechanism by which the gearbox knows that something is wrong, and then tells the engine not to GO ?
Thanks in advance for any help.
I have a 99 Xantia 1.9TD automatic, with what sounds like the same problem as this thread. (lots of googling and searching before this thread was found
)Sometimes it's fine, but sometimes the car is not capable of driving up a kerb or a raised manhole cover, from a standing start.
While my right foot is buried in the carpet, the car behaves as though I've only pressed one quarter or so of pedal travel.
Pulling out onto busy motorway junction roundabouts is now dangerous, as it can take five seconds or so to build up to 10mph, but from then upwards the car goes as it should.
After 2days in his garage, my local mechanic suggested it was 'turbo lag' so I found a diesel specialist, but he was puzzled too. He drove it out of his premises onto a busy 50mph A-road and scared himself.
This thread read so well, and I was hoping for a twiddle this or replace that hose type solution. Spending £1460 on a new gearbox isn't within my means.
Everything on the car works just fine, apart from this intermittent problem from a standstill.
Can anyone explain the mechanism by which the gearbox knows that something is wrong, and then tells the engine not to GO ?
Thanks in advance for any help.
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MikeT
- Posts: 4809
- Joined: 11 Jun 2007, 16:17
- Location: Christchurch, Dorset. UK
- My Cars: 2005 C5restyle 1.6HDI 16v 110hp VTR Estate
2008 C5 X7 1.6HDI VTR+ Saloon - x 231
Hello noobie and welcome 
I suggest you start your own thread to keep from getting muddled as you may find the commonality between your problem and this thread drift off on a different tangent. Just a suggestion though.
The ECU is the brains behind all this so the first advice is to ignore mechanics that suggest turbo lag (as he probably doesn't understand turbo's or xantia's) and then get the ECU diagnostic codes read.
However, if you want to blindly check what you can, start with the oil level in the 'box.
Failing that, to get a kerb or similar obstruction, take a run up at it 8)
I suggest you start your own thread to keep from getting muddled as you may find the commonality between your problem and this thread drift off on a different tangent. Just a suggestion though.
The ECU is the brains behind all this so the first advice is to ignore mechanics that suggest turbo lag (as he probably doesn't understand turbo's or xantia's) and then get the ECU diagnostic codes read.
However, if you want to blindly check what you can, start with the oil level in the 'box.
Failing that, to get a kerb or similar obstruction, take a run up at it 8)
Last edited by MikeT on 10 May 2008, 20:25, edited 1 time in total.
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CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
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- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- Location: Paggers
- My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
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- Contact:
Hi Jon,200sxjon wrote: Can anyone explain the mechanism by which the gearbox knows that something is wrong, and then tells the engine not to GO ?
I suggest the first course of action might be a proper detailed diagnostics session using the pukka Citroen diagnostics kit which will effectively look into the gearbox and engine ECUs and see if there are any stored faults or sensor malfunctions.
If you're anywhere near me, I'd be happy to run my box of thicks over it for you.
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Cheers guys.
I did mean to say 'turbo lag
"
My other car is a petrol turbo, so I'm aware of problems like air leaks and actuators, and nothing seemed to make sense for this problem. Electrical gremlins I'm not used to dealing with.
I've used Ray Calvert at C+C Motors in Bradford a few years ago. Any locals know if he's good with automatics?
I live in Dewsbury (WF12) and don't know of a nearer Citroen man.
I did mean to say 'turbo lag
"My other car is a petrol turbo, so I'm aware of problems like air leaks and actuators, and nothing seemed to make sense for this problem. Electrical gremlins I'm not used to dealing with.
I've used Ray Calvert at C+C Motors in Bradford a few years ago. Any locals know if he's good with automatics?
I live in Dewsbury (WF12) and don't know of a nearer Citroen man.
A lot of the money in these kind of repairs is in stripping and refitting the box etc. That being the case you may not be getting £1400 of actual components......which is a pity. I would be looking for a new Torque convertor valve gear the lot. This would give you a box that would last the same miles again. It`s the old question of ascertaining what "reconditioned" actually means.
Still wish you best of luck with it and hopefully the guys will have done a proper job to give you many more miles.
This is a good site for general Autobox info.
http://www.automatictransmission.com.au/
Still wish you best of luck with it and hopefully the guys will have done a proper job to give you many more miles.
This is a good site for general Autobox info.
http://www.automatictransmission.com.au/
Citroen C5 1.6 HDI 110bhp Estate 06 plate
French Mistresses gone.
Citroen C5 HDI Mk 1 hatchback
Vel Satis 3.5 v6
ZX 1.9D Est.
ZX 1.9DHatch
Xantia 1.9td est.
Xantia 2.0 hdi Est.
Xantia V6 MK1
Xantia V6 MK 2
French Mistresses gone.
Citroen C5 HDI Mk 1 hatchback
Vel Satis 3.5 v6
ZX 1.9D Est.
ZX 1.9DHatch
Xantia 1.9td est.
Xantia 2.0 hdi Est.
Xantia V6 MK1
Xantia V6 MK 2
I've been to him recently, I don't think he has any test equipment eg Lexia.200sxjon wrote:
I've used Ray Calvert at C+C Motors in Bradford a few years ago. Any locals know if he's good with automatics?
I live in Dewsbury (WF12) and don't know of a nearer Citroen man.
M&M in Holmfirth seemed decent when I sent my C5 to them for the clutch to be replaced with a solid flywheel version.
Currently driving a 2004 C5 VTR (old shape) and an Electric Kia Soul. Sorry but the electric one is my favourite!
Formerly Hyundai Genesis 3.8 V6, 2 x Kia Optima, 2 x C5, Xsara and Saxo.
Formerly Hyundai Genesis 3.8 V6, 2 x Kia Optima, 2 x C5, Xsara and Saxo.
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CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
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- Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
- Location: Paggers
- My Cars: Bluebell the AX, Polly the C3 Picasso, Pix the Nissan Pixo, Propel the duathlon bike, TCR Pro the road bike and Fuji the TT bike...
- x 6185
- Contact:
You really do need to visit someone with a Lexia.bencowell wrote: I don't think he has any test equipment eg Lexia.
What we need is for more Forum members to own a Lexia and have them spread out all over the UK 8) Alas, they're still in hens teeth territory on the second-hand market and stratospherically expensive if you can find one
For the cost of a Lexia, you can pick up a very, very tidy late Xantia
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
A few months on...............
Some progress, but not much.
Fixing this hasn't been my hugest priority, but I've been slack about it, even by my lazy standards.
In mid-August I was visiting my Dad in Edinburgh. He has a C5 and uses a Citroen specialist garage (I forget the name). We asked them to do a Lexia scan on the Xantia. We turned up, and the mechanic diagnosed a missing air hose from a valve close to the bulkhead, just under the bonnet, more or less above the throttle pedal ( a photo would be handy but I just decided to post, and don't have one). Since then I've established that the pipe for the missing hose, doesn't actually pass any air at all, so that was a red herring. No Lexia scan was done.
On Monday I had an activity frenzy.
Booked my other car (Nissan) into a bodyshop in late October to have its scabby rust sorted, then realised that the Xantia would need to be in tip top form during October as I will have no alternative.
Booked into Citroen dealer in South Milford for a Lexia scan, and went in on Thursday.
No Lexia scan was done.
They showed me a cup with a little oil from the automatic gearbox, which was black, thin and mucky looking. The paperwork said 'Gearbox repair required'.
My knowledge of how autos work is limited to http://auto.howstuffworks.com/automatic ... ission.htm , though 142,000miles on the original oil has to be incredibly stupid, unless the manufacturer states it is 'sealed for life' and does not require oil changing.
(apologies for the epic, but I'm on a roll now)
More Googling tells me that the AL4 gearbox is problematic anyway. Later cars, 407, C5 etc have issues with warning lights, solenoids, and forums (particularly Australian ones) screaming that the oil needs changing regularly, every 20,000miles or so. Hardly 'sealed for life'.
The gearbox oil is not for sale in Halfords or local car shops, and is yellow, not red.
Earlier in this thread, Masood said his gearbox had a broken band. If mine does, it's scrap, obviously.
I'll find the right oil and change it.
Instructions for oil changing I found here:
http://www.citroencarclub.org.au/images ... evrons.pdf
However, I think I'm 90% likely to be wasting my money, as I've done another 8000 miles since my problem started. We'll see (and hope)
Some progress, but not much.
Fixing this hasn't been my hugest priority, but I've been slack about it, even by my lazy standards.
In mid-August I was visiting my Dad in Edinburgh. He has a C5 and uses a Citroen specialist garage (I forget the name). We asked them to do a Lexia scan on the Xantia. We turned up, and the mechanic diagnosed a missing air hose from a valve close to the bulkhead, just under the bonnet, more or less above the throttle pedal ( a photo would be handy but I just decided to post, and don't have one). Since then I've established that the pipe for the missing hose, doesn't actually pass any air at all, so that was a red herring. No Lexia scan was done.
On Monday I had an activity frenzy.
Booked my other car (Nissan) into a bodyshop in late October to have its scabby rust sorted, then realised that the Xantia would need to be in tip top form during October as I will have no alternative.
Booked into Citroen dealer in South Milford for a Lexia scan, and went in on Thursday.
No Lexia scan was done.
They showed me a cup with a little oil from the automatic gearbox, which was black, thin and mucky looking. The paperwork said 'Gearbox repair required'.
My knowledge of how autos work is limited to http://auto.howstuffworks.com/automatic ... ission.htm , though 142,000miles on the original oil has to be incredibly stupid, unless the manufacturer states it is 'sealed for life' and does not require oil changing.
(apologies for the epic, but I'm on a roll now)
More Googling tells me that the AL4 gearbox is problematic anyway. Later cars, 407, C5 etc have issues with warning lights, solenoids, and forums (particularly Australian ones) screaming that the oil needs changing regularly, every 20,000miles or so. Hardly 'sealed for life'.
The gearbox oil is not for sale in Halfords or local car shops, and is yellow, not red.
Earlier in this thread, Masood said his gearbox had a broken band. If mine does, it's scrap, obviously.
I'll find the right oil and change it.
Instructions for oil changing I found here:
http://www.citroencarclub.org.au/images ... evrons.pdf
However, I think I'm 90% likely to be wasting my money, as I've done another 8000 miles since my problem started. We'll see
(and hope)update:
my only activity recently has been to buy the wrong oil from German & Swedish (and French, apparently).
Transmission oil with AL4 in its description sounded a safe bet to me, but it turned out to be a thick GL5 axle oil, so I'm not using it.
Citroen/Peugeot really are the only sources for the correct yellow oil.
Since then, my Dad, with a 120k mile C5 driving just fine already thank you, has had its auto box oil changed with the correct stuff, and he's raving about it to me. Miles better gearchange timing and quality.
In among lots of googling, we found a Citroen test procedure that has snow mode engaged. Floor the accelerator (that's the point where my car does very little) keep it floored and switch off snow mode. The electriconics do something that forces a change to first gear and the car then sets off like it should. It works for me :nod:
my only activity recently has been to buy the wrong oil from German & Swedish (and French, apparently).
Transmission oil with AL4 in its description sounded a safe bet to me, but it turned out to be a thick GL5 axle oil, so I'm not using it.
Citroen/Peugeot really are the only sources for the correct yellow oil.
Since then, my Dad, with a 120k mile C5 driving just fine already thank you, has had its auto box oil changed with the correct stuff, and he's raving about it to me. Miles better gearchange timing and quality.
In among lots of googling, we found a Citroen test procedure that has snow mode engaged. Floor the accelerator (that's the point where my car does very little) keep it floored and switch off snow mode. The electriconics do something that forces a change to first gear and the car then sets off like it should. It works for me :nod: