3rd gear synchro?

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jonnydrumm1967
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3rd gear synchro?

Post by jonnydrumm1967 »

My Xantia TD sometimes refuses to select 3rd gear first time. It's infuriating,really. Usually going up the gears but can happen going down from 4th.
If you take an unconventional route ie almost going to 4th but then snicking it up to 3rd it's fine.

I've owned many PSA cars with the BE1/BE3 gearbox,this is the first selection bother I've really had.

Car's done 182k original clutch,should I change the gearbox oil and go from there? It'll be the cheapest option!

Thanks again, Jon.

I
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Post by Peter.N. »

If its refusing to go in rather than crunching, it could be that either the linkage is worn or damaged or your clutch is not comletely disengaging. Does it go into reverse OK?
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Post by JohnCKL »

My manual did the same, either refused to go in or crunch the gear when it did. Had 2 changes of gear oil before the problem went away. The last oil change was BV gear oil and not had much trouble since 9 months ago.
Xantia 1.9TD 1996
jonnydrumm1967
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Post by jonnydrumm1967 »

It goes into reverse OK, I think an oil change is on the cards,proper BV 75/80 being the best option.
It's been like this since I got the car in 2003 with 148k up. Clutch cable clip broke a short distance from home,the resulting clutchless gear changes didn't help!

Cheers.
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Post by alan s »

Over here there's been this tendency to go for a heavier grade of oil, often a 75/95 synthetic that can make them play up like hell, then regardless of what you tell them, the numbnuts then go and spend a fortune on rebuilding gearboxes and think that after the rebuild and the correct oil is used contend that this was coincidental.
We can't get Total easily here as Total have not had an official presence here for about 30 years, but I understand the recommended Total BV makes a big difference. As an option, we use Castrol VMX80 to which is added a Nulon G70 gearbox additive and have had I would guess a 98% success rate. In cases where it hasn't worked, the response usually has been that they couldn't get the VMX or VB but got an "equivalent" so anybodys guess as to what they actually put in.
If the box is really bad, it is usually suggested that it has this mix drained out again at say 5000 klms and a fresh mix including the additive used as a refill.
The results can be rather spectacular and the colour and state of the oil drained out after a small mileage has to be seen to be believed; it obviously washes a lot of crap out.
To prove this was not a panacea, a guy down south changed the gear oil in his D special and used the above mix without telling his wife.
The next time she drove it, she asked him if he had taken the car in to get a clutch in it while she was away on a business trip as it had never changed gears so smoothly in all the years they'd had the car.
My eldest son also recently had the gearbox out of his Xantia to fix a rear main seal. Again, he was asked if he had fitted a new clutch while he had it out. That's the amount of difference it can make.


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Post by slim123 »

Hi Jon.

That will be the synchro hub worn on the 3rd gear, this was allways a fairly common problem on the BX gearbox as well, the slip rings are realy cheaply made from ally, they wear very quick, especialy when the oil gets low.

I would guess that it's not the type of oil or quality of oil but the lack of oil that is the route cause!! My assumption is that in the past someone has changed the clutch but not replaced the drive shaft seals, this will have very slowly leaked away a portion of the gearbox oil, low enough to cause this problem (just a thought)

Now the (fairly) good news......

It is possible to replace this without removing the box, you can strip the gear trains from a Xantia and BX without actually taking the gearbox off the car, it is all done through the wheel arch and will take about a day if you have not done it before.

There is no doubt that Total BV is good gear oil but in my opinion, no better than other brand synthetic gear oil for 5 speed boxes, but changing it now is a tadd too late as it aint gonna put the metal back on.

As for the part, it will only be available from Citroen and if I remember right, the last one I did was about £75.00

Regards
Slim.
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Post by addo »

Can anyone post a part number or diagram that identifies the 2/3 synchro? I'm having trouble finding other than 1/2, 3/4 and 5th synchros in the parts pages of Service Citroen/Box.

Cheers, Adam.
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Post by Old-Guy »

I reckon that will be because there isn't one: the 3/4 synchro is for BOTH 3rd and 4th gears (the 3/4 selector will have three positions: 3rd, neutral, 4th). Same with 1/2. If you can look at a decent exploded drawing you will probably see there is a synchro ring/cone (normally identical) either side of the selector (lock) ring.

To explain, the gears spin freely on the 3rd motion shaft, the synchro cone matches gear and shaft speed before the selector ring locks a gear to the shaft. The selector mechanism is designed so that only one selector at a time can move, the others being held in neutral. This ensures that only ONE gear at a time is engaged (locked to the shaft).
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Post by evilally »

'96 405 1.6 GLX with 306 GTI engine on Cat cams @ 195bhp

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Post by addo »

Cheers mate; wondered if I wasn't reading something right. :lol:

I'm rather new to this style of gearbox (as opposed to the straight through variety).
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Post by CitroJim »

addo wrote: I'm rather new to this style of gearbox (as opposed to the straight through variety).
Adam, the BE series of gearboxes are an exceedingly old-fashioned design, particularly their cone synchros. Noah had a BE3 on his ark!!!

That is by no means a bad thing of course but does go a little way to explain why the synchros are a bit delicate in these 'boxes...

One thing I always like about PSA, they had a few good fnndamentally simple designs and stuck with them for a long time. The XU engines and BE gearboxes are a good example of this... The BE is still a current gearbox.
Jim

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Post by addo »

I felt old today. Started the 405, pushed the clutch in, and went to move off in first.

Whoops! I'd grabbed the lighting stalk, pulled it towards me and pushed it up... :oops:
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3rd gear synchro

Post by scratcher »

Hi, since getting my GSA with 5 speed gear box on the road , it is difficult to get the car into 3rd gear without a crunch, similar problem to the topic heading. The car has olly done 50000 miles. Could this be the oil grade problem as explained in previous entries. Oil used Comma EP75W-80
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Post by CitroJim »

addo wrote:I felt old today. Started the 405, pushed the clutch in, and went to move off in first.

Whoops! I'd grabbed the lighting stalk, pulled it towards me and pushed it up... :oops:
That is so funny. I was eating a ham sandwich reading that, most isn now all over my keyboard :lol: :lol: :lol:
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