HDi Cooking oil

mooseshaver · Post by **mooseshaver** » 29 Sep 2007, 08:59

howiedean wrote:
citroenbx wrote: The seems to be loads of places producing biodiesel in the North West.

I've not noticed any yet. All we seemt to have around here is Normal and Expenisve Diesel. Where in teh North West do you mean? Cumbria?

Brian UK · Post by **Brian UK** » 29 Sep 2007, 11:04

There are at least two different methods of producing Bio-diesel. One requires additives which rot all rubber seals etc, the other does not.
See http://www.bio-power.co.uk/index.htm for more information on this. The one they advocate is the safer type. The one which is more commercially available is the less safe type. They also have a list of suppliers if you look.
This is one of the reasons for all the hype about not using Bio-diesel in certain engines.
In the HDIs, the problem is more one of viscosity, and the extremely high pressures in the fuelling system (up to 1300 Bar).

caveman_si · Post by **caveman_si** » 30 Sep 2007, 10:40

There is only ONE way to make BIO DIESEL and that is by chemical reaction. Ususally by adding an alcohol and an alkeli such as methanol and sodium hydroxide. Which gives bio diesel and a glycerine byproduct. The biodiesel produced by this method is almost chemically the same as the stuff that shell, bp etc make minus the winteriser.

Anything else is biofuel and NOT suitable for anything that isnt mechanical injection.

A HDI running on bio fuel from BIo power as mentioned by brian will fail, ive seen a few. The reasons being Bio power use vegetable oil and thinners such as acetone. HDI fuel tank pumps cant handle viscous fluid ie vegoil and will break. Also the way the fuel is atomised into the cylinder causes veg oil to get past the oil seal and polyermerise and sieze the engine. AS for biodiesel ruining seals, as long as you have a modern car it wont as most modern fuel pipes are vitron which is chemical resistant unlike the rubberised piping that used to be used (and often sold now as replacement fuel line in some parts shops).

IF you have a HDI and want to run eco fuels, there is only 2 things you can do. 1) get proper bio diesel (eg FAME or RME) and run it on that. or
2) Get you car twin tanked by someone like http://www.smartveg.com/.

ANything else will mess your car up.

I foregot the only reason you cant use biodiesel in some really modern cars is the diesel particular filter. FOr instance the PSA range of cars fitted with FAP cant only take biodiesel at a 30% as anymore and the exhust blocks up due to the technological fiddle they uses burnin the soot off. VW's fitted with their particulate filters in the exhuast cant run on any bio due to the different method of recharging its filter. But if you remove the filter then everything is fine.

howiedean · Post by **howiedean** » 30 Sep 2007, 13:07

mooseshaver wrote:
howiedean wrote:
citroenbx wrote: The seems to be loads of places producing biodiesel in the North West.
I've not noticed any yet. All we seemt to have around here is Normal and Expenisve Diesel. Where in teh North West do you mean? Cumbria?

Not many in Cumbria I'm afraid, have a look here:

http://www.biodieselfillingstations.co.uk/region07.htm

Regards

nick · Post by **nick** » 30 Sep 2007, 17:09

There's none in Lincolnshire at all according to that

They used to list some Rix stations selling 5% biodiesel blend, but I presume they consider 5% blend isn't really worth bothering to mention anymore!

XantiaMan · Post by **XantiaMan** » 30 Sep 2007, 18:51

I didnt realise biodiesel was that expensive to buy from outlets, still, at least its cheaper than what diesel is at the moment.

howiedean · Post by **howiedean** » 30 Sep 2007, 20:05

nick wrote:There's none in Lincolnshire at all according to that

They used to list some Rix stations selling 5% biodiesel blend, but I presume they consider 5% blend isn't really worth bothering to mention anymore!

I know, I've brought back 110 litres (74 ppl) of biodiesel from Rochdale this weekend. The closest to us in Lincolnshire is a place in sheffield.

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 30 Sep 2007, 20:44

caveman_si wrote:...veg oil to get past the oil seal and polyermerise and sieze the engine.

Is it specific to HDI's or all diesel injection engines?

nick · Post by **nick** » 30 Sep 2007, 22:05

howiedean wrote:I know, I've brought back 110 litres (74 ppl) of biodiesel from Rochdale this weekend. The closest to us in Lincolnshire is a place in sheffield.

I notice there's one in Driffield but their website isn't working at the moment.
I work near Hull, but Driffield is still quite a drive even from there when the roads are busy.

den169 · Post by **den169** » 30 Sep 2007, 23:01

Who's using biodiesel in a hdi and for how long.

Brian UK · Post by **Brian UK** » 30 Sep 2007, 23:38

caveman_si wrote:HDI fuel tank pumps cant handle viscous fluid ie vegoil and will break. Also the way the fuel is atomised into the cylinder causes veg oil to get past the oil seal and polyermerise and sieze the engine.

I thought it was the HP pump which could not handle the more viscous fuel. When it is working at 1300BAR a little extra viscosity makes a huge difference.

Can you explain the last bit, what oil seal?

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 30 Sep 2007, 23:47

Brian UK wrote:
caveman_si wrote:HDI fuel tank pumps cant handle viscous fluid ie vegoil and will break. Also the way the fuel is atomised into the cylinder causes veg oil to get past the oil seal and polyermerise and sieze the engine.
I thought it was the HP pump which could not handle the more viscous fuel. When it is working at 1300BAR a little extra viscosity makes a huge difference.

Can you explain the last bit, what oil seal?

Piston rings