Fifth Gear - Veggie Power

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aimcarthur
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Fifth Gear - Veggie Power

Post by aimcarthur »

Hi Guys,

Last night they had a little piece on veggie oil and set me thinking!

Is it possible to add straight rapeseed (not veggie oil, rapeseed being slightly thinner) to a ZX 1.9TD (Bosch Pump)?

Thought I would mix anything up to 50% diesel/50% Rapeseed oil?

Will this make the pump work harder?

Does it have any benefits? I heard it can clean out the system and help lubricate the pump more?

Cheers

Al.
Citroen ZX 1.9 TD Aura 1994 92k miles
MikeT
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Post by MikeT »

Tesco vegetable oil lists rapeseed oil as the only ingredient so it's news to me there's a difference. Where would you get this oil from?

Vegetable oil is up to 7 times thicker than diesel so, yes, all parts will be stressed more but once the engine is warmed up it gets thinner and they say the mechanical bosch pump is strong enough. I also read that, when cold, it may get past the piston rings and contaminate the engine oil or cause some such damage but that was a theory, not proven in tests. It may interfere with atomisation from the injectors too but again, once warm, probably not an issue.

I've been using 95 - 100% veg oil for about a thousand miles now and the disadavantages I know of is that it's messy to refill, can take a few more turns to get the engine started and smokes/hunts on startup but clears within a few minutes of idle or immediately when driven.

I read you should immediately change the fuel filter and then change it again within a few hundred miles due to the cleaning effects but on inspection I couldn't see any sign of muck - just a few small bits of something that got trapped between the pleats - and both filters came out looking like they went in.

My bosch pump has developed a slight leak that hasn't worsened for several hundred miles though I can't say it's the veg oil that's to blame as I've also used a few additives including a dash of petrol in my experimentation.

The advantages are obvious though. 56p a litre, same if not better mpg, same performance, no stinky diesel fumes and the aroma of a chip shop everywhere you go (if you like that sort of thing). Not to mention the savings to the planet and the environment - the list goes on.

You could buy parts to avoid the cold start issue - fuel heaters, special glow plugs and injectors, second small tank for diesel etc. I didn't.

I would say, if you're not sure and you value your car, don't do it or seek expert advice. There are specialists to consult. This xantia was cheap and not in the best of health anyway so I've got a cavalier attitude about it but the money I've saved is incredible and I'm averaging 36mpg through mostly heavy-footed urban driving.
aimcarthur
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Post by aimcarthur »

thanks for the comprenshive reply.

'pura' 100% rapeseed oil I found in Tesco's although I confess I have not looked at the ingredients of tescos 'vegetable oil'.

My car is only a zx 1.9td, which I paid £600 for. One owner (known to me) and only 72,000 miles. I have brought for my 100 mile daily commute and so far (3,000 miles so far) it has been perfect returning 55mpg.

My thoughts were is I chuck in the 5 litres or so per fill a little saving is better than any at at that concentration any problems with cold start etc... will be minimal.

Any further thoughts?
Citroen ZX 1.9 TD Aura 1994 92k miles
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Post by Cpt_Spalding »

I got my Xantia 1.9XUD about 3 weeks ago now & immediately joined this forum. Read & re-read practically every thread I could find on SVO (straight veg oil) I could find. I then asked a couple of questions like you, as you do when something seems too good to be true.

I took the plunge not long after & on 2nd tank & put in about 20% SVO. Worked fine & now I'm up to 50% mix. Early days yet for me but I'm inclined to agree with most others on the SVO.

I'm now asking the questions on how to process WVO (waste VO) for even cheaper motoring.
'98 Xantia 1.9TD Tempt 2 Estate.
Had an M reg long ago as co. car & been curious about owning again ever since.
What have I done????
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Post by AndersDK »

Rapeseed oil is a veggie oil !
- cant see the problem ?

The idea is to overcome your psycoligical barrier - and then start pour in that stuff in your tank - and drive away. Just like that :lol:
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
roypch
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Post by roypch »

On a related issue, is there any negative effect on rubber hoses used in the fuel system (leak off pipe, filter to pump etc) when using pure veg oil ?

As MikeT said, I tried changing fuel filter after experimenting with tesco veg oil but couldn't see any difference to the filter elements.

roy
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Post by Xaccers »

Done several thousand miles on 100% veg oil from Costco, it's not as runny as Tesco's rapeseed, but is only 55ppl.
I syphon it into the fuel tank, though when I get a chance I think I'll buy a £15 electric drill powered pump just to make things quicker and hopefully less messy.

Over last winter I dropped to 50%

I also drop in a tank's worth of redex now and again.

TehAgent is also happily running on 100% veg too.
1.9TD+ SX Xantia Estate (Cassy) running on 100% veg
1.9TD SX Xantia Hatchback (Jenny) running on 100% veg for sale
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Post by PicassoPigeon »

Have done about 40,000 miles on SVO in my Xantia. No problems apart from changing fuel filter a few times when i first started.
Have been buying from Tesco in the KTC plastic tubs 10L in each and then add 10% unleaded to help with the cold starts.It may hunt a little on startup but not for long.
Also no mods on the car just using the nice heated fuel filter fitted as standard.

If i make a mees down the side of the car and it starts to leave black dirt from the filler cap area this can be removed with Stardrops (58p in asda) and a microfiber cloth (£1.99 for a pack of two giant floor ones in Lidl)

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aimcarthur
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Post by aimcarthur »

sounds good so far!

What about 100% biodiesel (Biodiesel of EN14214) ? I resume this is all the same stuff of sorts and it's only when you get to Di and Common Rail engines that you get problems?

Will 100% EN14214 corrode the fuel pipes/seals?
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Post by XantiaMan »

So if i am reading this correctly, neat, unused veggie oil is safe for use in my car? I fancy popping 5 litres of it in shortly, got about 20 litres in there just to see how it goes. Does it affect performance or economy in any way?

Gareth
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Post by MikeT »

I've read the you need to add other (possibly highly corrosive) chemicals to WVO so I'm not going down that path. As I haven't calculated the cost of the other ingredients or my time to process it - straining and filtering etc. Cheap as chips either way 8)

How much is pura?

As mentioned earlier, if parts are disintegrating I'm not aware of it, just my pump started leaking a little and as other oil users haven't got this problem I doubt it's related to the fuel.

I was concerned the filter would struggle to pass enough fuel at high revs and may be hindering peak power but nothing has imploded yet.

See my previous reply about economy and performance.
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Post by Cpt_Spalding »

XantiaMan583 wrote:So if i am reading this correctly, neat, unused veggie oil is safe for use in my car? I fancy popping 5 litres of it in shortly, got about 20 litres in there just to see how it goes. Does it affect performance or economy in any way?

Gareth
Shouldn't affect performance.

A word of warning that was given me before I went ahead with SVO. Make sure you're not running the HDI diesel! & if it is the 1.9XUD then make sure it's the Bosch fuel pump that's fitted (most Xantia 1.9XUD's are) otherwise you may well be inviting trouble!
'98 Xantia 1.9TD Tempt 2 Estate.
Had an M reg long ago as co. car & been curious about owning again ever since.
What have I done????
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Post by XantiaMan »

I have no problems then, its a 1.9TD with a nice tweakable Bosch pump :) Is 'any' veggie oil ok to use off the shelf?
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Cpt_Spalding
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Post by Cpt_Spalding »

apparently so.

According to my own extensive research of previous threads, the answer is a straight yep.

I've been using both Asda & Tesco own brand veg oil @ £1.67 per 3 litre bottle. Seems about average. Even Costco & Macro can't do it cheaper than 55p per litre by all accounts.

There are various methods used by members for pouring it into the tank from siphoning from 20l container to decanting to a watering can.

Personally, I have cut the bottom off a little chuggable big-mouth lucozade bottle, put the mouth end in the top of the tank & pour the SVO as quickly as you like in the other end.

Good luck & happy SVO motoring
'98 Xantia 1.9TD Tempt 2 Estate.
Had an M reg long ago as co. car & been curious about owning again ever since.
What have I done????
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Post by XantiaMan »

Just gonna raid the cupboard and bung some straight in then! Maybe i've been blind to the fact the SVO is quit a bti cheaper than diesel and that my car will run perfectly ok if not better using it, i dont do too many miles anymore but definatly some savings to be made, oh and saving the enviroment and all that!
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