Sinks lower and sooner now

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MikeT
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Sinks lower and sooner now

Post by MikeT »

I may be simply becoming more sensitive to the car (we've been together a good few months now) but I think it's sinking sooner and lower than I've come to expect when parked up.

It's not a complaint, per se, but I'm wondering if it's an indication that something important may need investigating/replacing soon?
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Post by handyman »

Looks like the failure of the anti-sink sphere. Is it the front or back that drops first?

It does not have a drastic effect on the suspension system immediately but does make the accumulator sphere and the pump work harder to keep the suspension in normal mode.

If you are handy with spanners, you can change it yourself. Do a search on the forum to show plenty of related threads.

Have any of the spheres been changed on the car?

Handyman
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Post by Peter.N. »

It could be general hydraulic system wear. I have had five 2.1 td estates and they have all behaved differently. The one I have now drops almost immediatly at the back, but comes up again as soon as I start it, so I dont worry. A change of LHM and clean out of the reservoir wouldn't come amiss and maybe a new acumulator sphere if it hasn't been changed recently, but if it drives OK I would't be to concerned.
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Post by MikeT »

Hi lads,

I can't be sure but I think the rear drops first and was told it had new front spheres and hydraulic pump last year. The LHM and filters are incredibly clean from what I can see.

Another oddity that began happening before I noticed this sinking occuring was that, with engine running, car stationary and front wheels turned almost to full lock, the front would jump up a few inches then drop back down, cycling appx every 13 secs which is roughly how often the accu clicks.

Are the two related?

I think I could manage to replace a sphere myself unless it's the one under and slightly behind the radiator? There's a lot of pipes and bits in the way and without a ramp, leverage would be limited but I'm game :o
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Post by XantiaMan »

My back end is identical. Any idea what is considered an acceptable time for the stop light to go out first thing in the morning?
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Post by admiral51 »

hi mike

not sure how related they are but if you got it on full lock and it jumps every time the acc clicks then i would say the acc is struggling to keep pressure up.does the acc click every 13 secs or so when steering central??

i had a duff anti sink ever since i had mine and after replacing acc sphere the click is approx 30-40 secs

if you change anti sink make sure you undo 9mm nut on pipe before undoing sphere and you will need a 3.5mm pipe seal(85p from cit)

i had my acc done by someone else before i found this forum so not done that myself but suggest its easier from underneath

let me know if you need a tool i got one you can use

colin
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Post by Mandrake »

MikeT wrote: Another oddity that began happening before I noticed this sinking occuring was that, with engine running, car stationary and front wheels turned almost to full lock, the front would jump up a few inches then drop back down, cycling appx every 13 secs which is roughly how often the accu clicks.

Are the two related?
Only in the sense that you will get a click from the regulator after the car has lifted itself - that is normal.

Also what you describe on full lock is also "normal" albeit undesirable behaviour. Because of the McPherson strut geometry when the steering is on full lock it puts a lot of side thrust on the strut increasing the movement friction a lot, (it can't rise and fall smoothly) which can sometimes trigger a cycle of height corrections.

If the struts are a bit sticky and in need of lubrication it will tend to do this a lot more easily, but in my experience even smooth and well lubricated struts will still sometimes do this on full lock.

Regards,
Simon
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Post by handyman »

Hi Mike, if you are contemplating changing the accumulator sphere, which sounds like it needs it, you can slacken it off quite easily.

First depressurize the system by setting the control lever to low and turning the bleedbolt on the front of the sphere block about half a turn (do not remove completely). You should hear the system depressurize.

Then get a long cold chisel and a hammer. Hit the sphere at a tangent on the weld to force the globe to rotate anti-clockwise, viewed from its end. You only need to do it once or twice to break the tension on the thread, as it will spin off by hand. Refitting the new sphere, fit the new seal in the bracket, moistened with clean LHM and screw in the sphere hand tight. That is all it needs. Retighten the bleed bolt, start engine and activate the system a few times through the control lever. Check the new sphere for leaks.

The technique of using the cold chisel was told to me by a Citroen garage so it must be common practice. I have changed loads of spheres using this method without mishap.

Handyman, IKBA
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Post by MikeT »

XantiaMan583 wrote:My back end is identical. Any idea what is considered an acceptable time for the stop light to go out first thing in the morning?
Seems it vaires for several reasons. My stop light used to go out within a few seconds but lately it'll take maybe a minute if left overnight.
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Post by MikeT »

admiral51 wrote:hi mike

not sure how related they are but if you got it on full lock and it jumps every time the acc clicks then i would say the acc is struggling to keep pressure up.does the acc click every 13 secs or so when steering central??colin
Hi Colin, yes, it used to be about 17 seconds between clicks but it's now about 13/14

Another thing that doesn't seem to work is the sit-in-the-boot test.
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Post by MikeT »

Mandrake wrote: - that is normal.

Also what you describe on full lock is also "normal"
Regards,
Simon
That'll do me, no need to spend money unnecessarily :lol: It can get irritating when waiting in queues if I have to stop at a tight turn for instance, not to mention the looks I get from others.

Cheers
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Post by MikeT »

handyman wrote:Hi Mike, if you are contemplating changing the accumulator sphere....
Handyman, IKBA
I recently discovered that trick when all other tools failed to remove an oil filter on my Ford. No room to drive a screwdriver through it but able to put a lip on the rim and a few sharp taps later - easy :wink:

I can see it working on the spheres too but would prefer techniques that won't damage anything - aren't spheres supposed to be exchanged?
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Post by handyman »

Hi Mike, if you are careful, you wont damage anything as you do not need to hit it THAT HARD! I usually move any leads, cables, hoses etc out of harms way. It works on Activas and they have much more stuff under the bonnet than most Xantias, except V6s.

As for exchanging spheres, they are so cheap and reliable now, I only buy new ones. Most suppliers definitely do not want them back. There are many preferences for the number of makes around at the moment and you can read so many conflicting stories about which make to fit on this forum.

I have my own regular supplier of both OE and replacement spares and he never lets me down.

Handyman, IKBA
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Post by MikeT »

Latest observations - STOP light comes on, after just a brief stop of 15 minutes or so, for several seconds while the car raises a little. This was a rare occurence before.

The rear sinks more than the front and, overnight, will sink lower than it used to.

Thought it might also be worth adding - I always thought the ride was a bit "boaty". There's a rippling (undulating) road nearby [troughs are in line with the drains at the kerb] that, while mildly accelerating from 20 to 40,I feel like I'm on a carousel ride! Altering acceleration does little to change that except amplify it.

I find conering at high speed (over 50mph) quite twitchy. It's easy to get the front to squeal on moderate to hard acceleration/cornering too.

I've driven cars at mad speeds before and you can get a certain confidence as you realise the limits but I get nervous at 70+ when approaching bends in the Xantia. Without the ABS currently working I just know that a heavy touch on the brakes when cornering will invoke a spin.

Even at lower speeds and heavy cornering I have to re-adjust (sometimes a more than once) the steering as the suspension levels back.

I get the impression the rear is all too ready to want to overtake the front given enough provocation but I have yet to prove that :twisted:
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Post by admiral51 »

hi mike

as you know ive changed the rear spheres on mine recently and the ride is 100% better

i had driven it with only the rear corners done and the car did sink at an alarming rate once switched off flat as a pancake after a few hours
also the braking was a bit "hit and miss" or thats what it felt like as the car would wallow a lot at the rear in corners as you put the brakes on :lol:

now ive changed the anti sink not only does the car stay up overnight but the handling is much better when braking either straight or cornering

it may be just coincedence but from what i have gleaned on here the anti sink is more an accumlator for the rear brakes than just to keep car up when turned off-
AFAIK if braking the rear suspension takes second place to brakes so with a flat antisink(acc) then pressure would drop in rear suspension giving a feeling that the back end has a mind of its own
im sure someone(maybe a lot) will tell me im talking out of my a**e but its only an observation :lol: :lol:

last time i saw you your car had quite hard rear suspension and i had the same feeling with my old vectra as you get with yours now my rear shocks had gone and driving along a dual carriageway at anything over 50 felt scary as if the back end wanted to come and swop places with the front :) :)

and before anyone says it vectras were scary at any speed :lol: :lol:

colin
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