Poor old 2.1

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Peter.N.
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Post by Peter.N. »

Hi Jim

I had pondered the possibility of using a 1.9 pump, surley they cant be that different, unless the 12valve engine needs different advance characteristics, otherwise I would have thought it would just have been a question of tweaking the max fuel output.

There are plenty of XMs being broken on ebay, so it shouldn't be to difficult to get a pump. The only thing to watch is that Bosch pumps have different injector pipes to CAV/Rotodiesel, so if the pump is different you need the pipes as well, but I wouldn't think that would be a problem. As you say, there are tappings to accomodate either type of pump.
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Post by Xaccers »

Are the injectors the same?
1.9TD+ SX Xantia Estate (Cassy) running on 100% veg
1.9TD SX Xantia Hatchback (Jenny) running on 100% veg for sale
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Post by CitroJim »

Xac wrote:Are the injectors the same?
No, a Bosch pump must use Bosch Pipes and Bosch Injectors.

We need one of those furry animals now, that are kept as pets. A Gineua Pig (sp?).
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Post by Xaccers »

Well, if anyone has a spare Bosch pump/pipes/injectors from a 2.1TD, send them my way ;)
1.9TD+ SX Xantia Estate (Cassy) running on 100% veg
1.9TD SX Xantia Hatchback (Jenny) running on 100% veg for sale
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Post by weety »

seem to remember (though helpfully not where) that some veggy boys looked at/actually converted a 2.1 from lucas to bosch to make it run on a single tank conversion

wasnt really paying attention as i thought it easier just to buy 1.9 xantias :oops:

might be worth posting on some of the veggy forums in case someone has done it already
M reg xantia 1.9td 266000 miles expired
R reg xantia 1.9td 186000 miles veggy power expired
L reg renault clio 1.9D 91000 miles expired at 107000 miles
x reg clio 15d veggy power bottom of the car rotted through
06 c5 2.2 TD wowser so much power and comfort 160000 miles
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Post by Peter.N. »

I don't like to disagree, but, I changed the CAV pump on my BX for a bosch and I only changed the pipes, the injectors were original. The difference between the two pumps is the injection order, if you use the pipes form the CAV on the Bosch, it wont run because the fuel is going up the wrong pipes at the wrong time - guess how I know! If there is some difference in the injectors that came about after the BX fair enough - but I dont know about it. I would have thought that the pressures were the same and if the pipe thread is the same what's different? I'm sure someone will tell me!
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Post by CitroJim »

No Peter, I think you are correct. You have been there and done it and in my eyes at least, practical knowledge gained through doing the job beats what one has read about every time :wink: The different firing order may well be where this particular belief comes from. It is something of an urban legend around the forums.

Thinking this through, the injectors look similar and are of very similar internal construction. They're both pintles and both will open and spray when a certain pressure is reached. So long as the pump can comfortably exceed this pressure then they will work. It is the pump itself that delivers the measured amount of fuel, the injector is there simply to spray nicely and to cleanly cut-off and not drip at the end of injection. It's flow and absolute opening pressure should have little bearing on performance. Have I just talked a complete load of rubbish here :?

Another urban legend, given credence of sorts in this months Practical Performance Car says Bosch pumps have a higher delivery pressure.
Jim

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Post by Peter.N. »

Yes, I've heard that one :wink: Strangely though, the car did perform better with the Bosch pump - it could of course just be that the fuel delivery was set higher! Ah, that could be the root of the myth, the fueling is much easier to adjust on the Bosch pump.

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Post by AndersDK »

very interesting this stuff :)

Me too I'm in the hord that believes in the urban myth, because never done a change/mix myself.
Never knew that the firing order - and thus piping - was different on the 2 pumps.
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Post by elma »

Don't know if you've seen this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CITROEN-XANTIA-2- ... dZViewItem

Engine runs so might not strip off the pump, but worth asking
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Post by CitroJim »

elma wrote:Don't know if you've seen this

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CITROEN-XANTIA-2- ... dZViewItem

Engine runs so might not strip off the pump, but worth asking
Worth asking :wink:

If you do, I'd try to get the ECU and keypad along with the code as well as the pump. I'm not sure if the keypad is coded to the ECU or if the pump is coded to the keypad or even if all three are coded as a full set :?
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Post by elma »

not positive but i think the pump holds the code.
On my 1.9td I'm certain it does as It has no ecu and I'm told if the code goes kaput I'll need a new pump
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Post by andmcit »

Do you want a complete and running but rusty XM 2.1 VSX S2 saloon
- 95 vintage!? The door bottoms inside are really rusty - strange on
an Xm and the window mechanisms are all shot to hell too...

Sans MOT etc and now sadly unwanted due to it being in the way of house
renovations. The engine/box are sweet as a nut and the real reason the
car has stayed about the place for so long. It starts on the button and
doesn't smoke though the mileage is IIRC about 180k miles and that's
on an AUTOMATIC gearbox - suggesting the engine wont have seen
much strenuous activity and also it's also interesting to see an auto
get past 120k miles = this bodes well for others - shows the previous
enthusiast owner's maintenance/upkeep has paid off in this respect.

The car is complete but has a serious LHM leak on the rear axle but
is supported up to allow it to move about forwards/backwards. It's in
Cowbridge near Cardiff.

As far as price is concerned It'll be absolutely NOWHERE near any of
the previously mentioned silly prices for just a pump but it'll need to
go asap. If NOBODY wants it, it's going to scrapped which would be
a sad waste. I believe shortly it may have it's radiator/light/instruments
pulled off it so be quick if you want to see/hear it running.

Trailering delivery is available at cost to wherever you need it subject
to negotiation!!!

*Unless you're in Inverness :lol:

Speak to Peter on 07738705007

Andrew
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