hi
i live in a village near gloucester which has been rather damp recently to sya the least......
my brother had the bright idea of trying to drive the old zx i sold him through a puddle / lake / flood that was far too deep and as a result the engine sucked in water and stalled. The engine had a hydraulic lock (where the pistons cannot go up and down as the water in the bores is incompressible) si i removed the glow plugs and the injector on the cylinder behind the diesel pump so i could turn the engine over and squirt the water out of the holes.
the engine cleared is water fine (by pushing car in gear not using starter motor) abd the car was not cranked after it filled with water it was just towed home in neutral and left park3ed for a couple of days.
with the water cleared and the engine back together it cranks over with absolutly no compression on any cylinder it just turns over like a sweing machine with no resistance or compression in any cylinder.
im confident the con rods are intact as the engine pushed the water out of its cylinders so the pistons must have been attached for th epistons to go up and down.
what could have happend to each cylinder for there to be no compression?? the cam belt is intact any ideas why there should be no compression in any cylinder???? has the head cracked all the way allong due to rapid cooling??
bent the valves somehow????????
i did a head gasket change on theis engine about 10 months ago so an pretty handy and working on it ive also fitted a new cambelt and tensiners, water pump and clutch. any ideas???
zx td sucked water in
Moderator: RichardW
zx td sucked water in
Zxtd Aura converted from 1.8i Petrol - Lowered, 20psi boost extra fuel - weeeeeee!
MK2 Cortina 1600e
Honda Acty Romahome - 545cc!! - (the "beast")
MK2 Cortina 1600e
Honda Acty Romahome - 545cc!! - (the "beast")
thanks for the response....
it did cross my mind that the belt may ahve slipped or the cam broken etc...
oh well the head will have to come off anyway so we shall see exactly what is happening...
it did cross my mind that the belt may ahve slipped or the cam broken etc...
oh well the head will have to come off anyway so we shall see exactly what is happening...
Zxtd Aura converted from 1.8i Petrol - Lowered, 20psi boost extra fuel - weeeeeee!
MK2 Cortina 1600e
Honda Acty Romahome - 545cc!! - (the "beast")
MK2 Cortina 1600e
Honda Acty Romahome - 545cc!! - (the "beast")
I know you would have done this by now but dont leave the old Paper Air filter in the air box.
I would remove the Intercooler for know also as this may have water in it.
Hopefully removing the Rocker Cover will reveal a few clues but if not you may need to take the head off a least then you can really check the head out.
I think you have hit the nail on the head with serious cracks because of sudden cooling.
The XUD as proved to be strong engine but with all that water and combined forces anything could have happened.
Just remember not to start the engine before the oil//filters have been changed.
Good Luck
I would remove the Intercooler for know also as this may have water in it.
Hopefully removing the Rocker Cover will reveal a few clues but if not you may need to take the head off a least then you can really check the head out.
I think you have hit the nail on the head with serious cracks because of sudden cooling.
The XUD as proved to be strong engine but with all that water and combined forces anything could have happened.
Just remember not to start the engine before the oil//filters have been changed.
Good Luck
Life feels good just as you complete No4 Glow Plug on a ZX-TD
If its cracked (which I think is unlikely) its not likely to have cracked on all 4 cylinders.
Whatever water that has got in there will have traveled through the air trunking, the turbo, the intercooler and into the engine, which means that it must drop down the back of the engine and back up again. The turbo is probably still full of water - so if you are going to save it you'd better get that out pretty quickly to prevent corrosion destroying it.
I'd remove the rocker cover and see what's happening. If all is revolving - get the engine to TDC (pin in hole by starter into flywheel) and see if the timing hole lines up properly for the camshaft. I accept that if the cambelt breaks there will be a collision between the pistons and the valves which will break the camshaft and probably its bearings but I am not sure if water will have this affect.
Its possible that water in the trunking, turbo etc is preventing the engine drawing in any air when turned on the starter. Its also possible (especially if this engine is old) that the water has destroyed the film of oil between the bores and the rings and hence all compression. I have had this in the past with severely flooded petrol engines - and the remedy has been a few drops of oil into the bores by the plug holes. (Daimler V8 responded to 2 only after a tow home by the AA who didn't have any oil!)
Whatever water that has got in there will have traveled through the air trunking, the turbo, the intercooler and into the engine, which means that it must drop down the back of the engine and back up again. The turbo is probably still full of water - so if you are going to save it you'd better get that out pretty quickly to prevent corrosion destroying it.
I'd remove the rocker cover and see what's happening. If all is revolving - get the engine to TDC (pin in hole by starter into flywheel) and see if the timing hole lines up properly for the camshaft. I accept that if the cambelt breaks there will be a collision between the pistons and the valves which will break the camshaft and probably its bearings but I am not sure if water will have this affect.
Its possible that water in the trunking, turbo etc is preventing the engine drawing in any air when turned on the starter. Its also possible (especially if this engine is old) that the water has destroyed the film of oil between the bores and the rings and hence all compression. I have had this in the past with severely flooded petrol engines - and the remedy has been a few drops of oil into the bores by the plug holes. (Daimler V8 responded to 2 only after a tow home by the AA who didn't have any oil!)
jeremy
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When I did the same thing to my first Xantia, I just removed all the air hoses, intercooler, injectors and airbox and let them drain.
Turned the engine over on it's battery to pump any remaining water out through the injector holes.
Put it all back together and she ran fine up until some scrote torched it one night about 6 months later.
Turned the engine over on it's battery to pump any remaining water out through the injector holes.
Put it all back together and she ran fine up until some scrote torched it one night about 6 months later.
1.9TD+ SX Xantia Estate (Cassy) running on 100% veg
1.9TD SX Xantia Hatchback (Jenny) running on 100% veg for sale
Laguna II 2.0dCi Privilege (Monty)
DIY sphere tool
1.9TD SX Xantia Hatchback (Jenny) running on 100% veg for sale
Laguna II 2.0dCi Privilege (Monty)
DIY sphere tool
I know that it's a bit late but you should not have left it for a few days to dry, best to remove glo plugs, spin to eject water then put back together and start it up, the engine heat will dry it out.
What could have happened is either, the piston rings have now got rust on them and are stuck, or when the engine was running in the water, the hydraulic lock can and does compress the con rods, leaving it all looking like all is well but the pistons do not go up far enough to give a good compression.
If it's stuck rings, try removing the glo plugs and squirting some diesel down the bores, leave it to soak overnight then spin the engine to remove the excess and then put it back together and try.
If the con rods have compressed, the only way to tell is to remove the head and see how far the pistons come up.
Of course it could be something totally different!!
Regards
Slim.
What could have happened is either, the piston rings have now got rust on them and are stuck, or when the engine was running in the water, the hydraulic lock can and does compress the con rods, leaving it all looking like all is well but the pistons do not go up far enough to give a good compression.
If it's stuck rings, try removing the glo plugs and squirting some diesel down the bores, leave it to soak overnight then spin the engine to remove the excess and then put it back together and try.
If the con rods have compressed, the only way to tell is to remove the head and see how far the pistons come up.
Of course it could be something totally different!!
Regards
Slim.
Agree -504GLD wrote:I will bet you have bent the connecting rods..... therefore the compression will not be sufficent to make the engine run.
In a hydraulic lock, only the cylinder block and parts are involved in the locking forces.
On the plus side is, that the complete cylinder head including valve & timing gear is still as good as before the swim. The belt can not snap or slip because of the hydraulic lock. No unduly forces ar transferred to or via the belt.
Anders (DK) - '90 BX16Image
hi guys
i agree that the car should not have been left for a coupl4e of days but its not my car its my brothers an he didnt seem to understand the importance of clearing the water as soon as possible, it was a couple of days and would have been longer if i hadnt gone out and cleared the water myself......
anders, you say that no extra forces could be transmitted through the cam belt during a hydraulic lock, but surely of the piston is on a cobmustion stroke and then the exhaust valve tries to open as the piston rises again, the valve would jam against the pressure of the water in the bore???????
i suspect to find that the valves are bent as they tried to open against the water pressure and also the con rods will be bent aswell.
it will need a new engine more than likely which is gutting as before i sold the car to my brother i did literally everything on it , cam belt and idlers, clutch, new steel laminated head gasket, water pump, everything and now he has ditched it into a flood, what a fool. That engine would have gone on for years if it wasnt for this event.....
i agree that the car should not have been left for a coupl4e of days but its not my car its my brothers an he didnt seem to understand the importance of clearing the water as soon as possible, it was a couple of days and would have been longer if i hadnt gone out and cleared the water myself......
anders, you say that no extra forces could be transmitted through the cam belt during a hydraulic lock, but surely of the piston is on a cobmustion stroke and then the exhaust valve tries to open as the piston rises again, the valve would jam against the pressure of the water in the bore???????
i suspect to find that the valves are bent as they tried to open against the water pressure and also the con rods will be bent aswell.
it will need a new engine more than likely which is gutting as before i sold the car to my brother i did literally everything on it , cam belt and idlers, clutch, new steel laminated head gasket, water pump, everything and now he has ditched it into a flood, what a fool. That engine would have gone on for years if it wasnt for this event.....
Zxtd Aura converted from 1.8i Petrol - Lowered, 20psi boost extra fuel - weeeeeee!
MK2 Cortina 1600e
Honda Acty Romahome - 545cc!! - (the "beast")
MK2 Cortina 1600e
Honda Acty Romahome - 545cc!! - (the "beast")
The timing has not been affected, the only problem is that water has been introduced, so the valves will not be affected.
When on compression stroke the piston goes up and the valves are shut, the mixture in the chamber compresses to the top of the stroke, then bang it goes and the piston goes back down again.
4 cyl cycle
1) Suck
2) Squeeze
3) Bang
4) Blow
When water is taken in on the "suck" stroke, it will have the inlet valve open, the problem comes with the "squeeze" stroke, you cannot compress a liquid, so something has to give, normally the con rods either compress or bend.
The basic principle of any hydraulic system is that you can compress a gas but not a liquid, thats how they work so well.
If you try to compress water in the combustion chamber the forcess produced are very high, I have seen a con rod taken from a tractor that looked perfectly sraight and was, but on measuring, the metal had compressed due to the forces involved in water.
Regards
Slim.
When on compression stroke the piston goes up and the valves are shut, the mixture in the chamber compresses to the top of the stroke, then bang it goes and the piston goes back down again.
4 cyl cycle
1) Suck
2) Squeeze
3) Bang
4) Blow
When water is taken in on the "suck" stroke, it will have the inlet valve open, the problem comes with the "squeeze" stroke, you cannot compress a liquid, so something has to give, normally the con rods either compress or bend.
The basic principle of any hydraulic system is that you can compress a gas but not a liquid, thats how they work so well.
If you try to compress water in the combustion chamber the forcess produced are very high, I have seen a con rod taken from a tractor that looked perfectly sraight and was, but on measuring, the metal had compressed due to the forces involved in water.
Regards
Slim.
