Greetings from France
For the last 2 years I have owned a Spanish spec Activa Series 1(1996 2litre ct turbo )originally bought and used by my late father on the Costa del Sol. When he died, my mum was going to dispose of the car before moving back to the UK and I, rather foolishly, thought it would make an ideal cheap car to base at our house in the Dordogne, France and use it whilst we spent our summers there.
I say' rather foolishly ' because it has like most Activas you read about in the forum it has needed more than its fair share of TLC and associated expense. In fact if it hadn't been for the paternal connection it would probably have gone by now - Activas can still make good money in France!!( as long as they are LHD)
To date I have replaced:
Cooling Fan Motor
Heater Blower Assembly( both shot from overuse on Costa del Sol with A/C)
Front and Rear Wheel Spheres
Both Front Top Strut Assemblies( after a spectacular failure on RHS side whilst parked last summer - also probably due to rubber perishing in the Spanish sun)
Cam Belt/Water Pump/Aux Drive Belt
Turbo Pressure Sensor
Return Pipe from Pump to Reservoir
A further Hydraulic Return Pipe burried behind engine
Bonnet - Front Strut consequence
Wing ( now this was actually cosmetic!!)
Battery
Add in the transfer to Fench Registration (370Euros) and you begin to see this is not a cheap motor.
However there is now a clunk seemingly from the front suspension - LHS (yes the Ram side) when taking up the drive and sometimes when suddenly reducing acceleration. I have checked and checked again - there appears to be nothing loose and the ram is not leaking.
Would a worn Ram bush do this? - I did disconnect the Ram when replacing the Strut top.
Any help would be gratefully received.
Incidently most of the parts were sourced in England - considerably cheaper than in France!! Don't ask me how
And I just love the car.............
Clunk from front on Activa
Moderator: RichardW
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DickieG
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The ram does have ball joints at each end as per a normal drop link and yes they can can become noisy if worn although I believe that would tend to happen more when negotiating bumps rather than taking up the drive etc.
I'm more inclined to suspect the driveshaft and engine mountings as worn suspension ball joints normally show out over bumps. The other item I'd look at would be the wishbone rubber bushes, I've just replaced both front wishbones on mine. On the car they looked fine, when removed the rubber bush had split and pulled away from the metal collar.
Have you had an assistant 'drive the car' whilst you observe/listen from outside?
I'm more inclined to suspect the driveshaft and engine mountings as worn suspension ball joints normally show out over bumps. The other item I'd look at would be the wishbone rubber bushes, I've just replaced both front wishbones on mine. On the car they looked fine, when removed the rubber bush had split and pulled away from the metal collar.
Have you had an assistant 'drive the car' whilst you observe/listen from outside?
13 Ram 1500 Hemi
14 BMW 535D Tourer
19 BMW i3s
06 C3 Desire 1.4
72 DS 21 EFi Pallas BVH
14 BMW 535D Tourer
19 BMW i3s
06 C3 Desire 1.4
72 DS 21 EFi Pallas BVH
At least it won't be rusty... now tell us you will trash it!
To date I have replaced:
Cooling Fan Motor
Heater Blower Assembly( both shot from overuse on Costa del Sol with A/C)
And I just love the car.............
R.I.P. January 2010.
XM 2.1 auto VSX 1996 - Bosch Inj, Xantia HDi 90 estate 1999, Xantia 1.9TD 1997
Previously...
GS 1970, Dyane 1974, Xantia 94 VSX TD, XM 94, 2.1 auto - Lucas Inj, XM 92 2.1 estate - Lucas Inj
XM 2.1 auto VSX 1996 - Bosch Inj, Xantia HDi 90 estate 1999, Xantia 1.9TD 1997
Previously...
GS 1970, Dyane 1974, Xantia 94 VSX TD, XM 94, 2.1 auto - Lucas Inj, XM 92 2.1 estate - Lucas Inj
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petef
- Posts: 193
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- Location: Lochwinnoch,Scotland and Dordogne, France
- My Cars: DS DS5, C4 Coupe, DS23 Pallas, Xantia Activa
- x 11
Thanks for your thoughts DickieG; have had a look today with a friend driving and me observing from the side with the bonnet up ( don't worry he only went back and forwards a few yards!!)
Not particularly conclusive though - the engine certainly moves backwards and forwards more than I expected but this may be normal??
The top LHS (facing engine) engine mount has been replaced at some stage( blue paint on nuts) and looks sound. where do I find the other mounts - I gather there is another top mount on the Activa together with one underneath somewhere??
I am also intrigued by the concept of a clunk from the brakes caused by brake pad movement, particularly when starting off or reversing - as mentioned in another post on Xantias. Might this be a cause?
Rest of suspension links and driveshafts seem ok. Reckon I will change the front brake pads as this was a job I had lined up anyway and see if that affects the clunk.
Any further thoughts would be very welcome
PS As pointed out with its Spanish origins it may be a bit knackered but it certainly ain't rusty
Not particularly conclusive though - the engine certainly moves backwards and forwards more than I expected but this may be normal??
The top LHS (facing engine) engine mount has been replaced at some stage( blue paint on nuts) and looks sound. where do I find the other mounts - I gather there is another top mount on the Activa together with one underneath somewhere??
I am also intrigued by the concept of a clunk from the brakes caused by brake pad movement, particularly when starting off or reversing - as mentioned in another post on Xantias. Might this be a cause?
Rest of suspension links and driveshafts seem ok. Reckon I will change the front brake pads as this was a job I had lined up anyway and see if that affects the clunk.
Any further thoughts would be very welcome
PS As pointed out with its Spanish origins it may be a bit knackered but it certainly ain't rusty
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CitroJim
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Hi Pete,
It's a strange old top mount on the Activa. It has a component of the bottom mount that will be found down behind the engine on the cambelt side looking like a big donut and having the driveshaft passing just above it. The Activa mounts are very solid and my engine hardly moves at all on its mounts.
The other mount is on the end of the gearbox going up into an outrigger on the chassis rail and well hidden. The former gives plenty of trouble in all XU and XUD engined cars. They all have them and they either break up or go soft from oil contamination. The gearbox mount is usually pretty trouble-free.
Other Bendix front brakes like the ones on my 205GTi are notorious for clanking and clunking on drive take-up, especially if the car has been standing for a few days in damp weather. I can't say I've ever noticed it on my Xantias though but if the discs are well worn it is possible as there is not much to retain the pads very solidly against up and down movement in the caliper.
Another remote cause may be if your Activa Balancing sphere is flat causing the rams and roll bars to go solid rather than being able to move gently and relatively freely through the action of the balancing sphere although if this were the case I would have thought you would have felta nd heard it at the rear too. If the balancing sphere is flat it would have the effect of putting the suspension into full-time maximum roll correction which should only happen near the ragged edge under control of the Activa Electrovalve.
Personally,, I find the Activa suspension in general is not the quietest even when everything is in good order.
I love my Activa too!
It's a strange old top mount on the Activa. It has a component of the bottom mount that will be found down behind the engine on the cambelt side looking like a big donut and having the driveshaft passing just above it. The Activa mounts are very solid and my engine hardly moves at all on its mounts.
The other mount is on the end of the gearbox going up into an outrigger on the chassis rail and well hidden. The former gives plenty of trouble in all XU and XUD engined cars. They all have them and they either break up or go soft from oil contamination. The gearbox mount is usually pretty trouble-free.
Other Bendix front brakes like the ones on my 205GTi are notorious for clanking and clunking on drive take-up, especially if the car has been standing for a few days in damp weather. I can't say I've ever noticed it on my Xantias though but if the discs are well worn it is possible as there is not much to retain the pads very solidly against up and down movement in the caliper.
Another remote cause may be if your Activa Balancing sphere is flat causing the rams and roll bars to go solid rather than being able to move gently and relatively freely through the action of the balancing sphere although if this were the case I would have thought you would have felta nd heard it at the rear too. If the balancing sphere is flat it would have the effect of putting the suspension into full-time maximum roll correction which should only happen near the ragged edge under control of the Activa Electrovalve.
Personally,, I find the Activa suspension in general is not the quietest even when everything is in good order.
I love my Activa too!
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
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petef
- Posts: 193
- Joined: 23 Jul 2006, 20:46
- Location: Lochwinnoch,Scotland and Dordogne, France
- My Cars: DS DS5, C4 Coupe, DS23 Pallas, Xantia Activa
- x 11
Thanks for the advice. Have now replaced the front pads and the clunk is still there! As the French Controle Technique (MOT) was due for renewal I thought I would wait and see if they found anything. Anyway today it was tested and it passed!! BUT the Tester said he had heard the 'clak' and had then double checked all the suspension/bushes etc without finding anything amiss. He was of the opinion that it was the gearbox mounting, so that is where I will start looking. Problem is WHERE? Do I remove the battery and its tray and then look underneath or is the Activa different (Haynes, of course, does not deal with Activa or 2litreCT Turbo.)
Any help or other thoughts gratefully received.
Incidently the Tester says the Activa is a rare car even in France ; apart from mine he has only tested one other example - a 2litre HDI never available in the UK
Any help or other thoughts gratefully received.
Incidently the Tester says the Activa is a rare car even in France ; apart from mine he has only tested one other example - a 2litre HDI never available in the UK
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CitroJim
- A very naughty boy
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Hi Pete,
Congrats on passing the CT Test
The gearbox mount will be found under the battery tray/ABS block (in that general area) but they are very reliable normally but worth a check certainly.
Another remote possibility is loose bellhousing bolts allowing the gearbox to move a bit relative to the engine. Rare on a Xantia but my fellow 205GTi owners report this happening quite frequently.
Congrats on passing the CT Test
The gearbox mount will be found under the battery tray/ABS block (in that general area) but they are very reliable normally but worth a check certainly.
Another remote possibility is loose bellhousing bolts allowing the gearbox to move a bit relative to the engine. Rare on a Xantia but my fellow 205GTi owners report this happening quite frequently.
Jim
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
Runner, cyclist, time triallist, duathlete, Citroen AX fan and the CCC Citroenian 'From A to Z' Columnist...
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handyman
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Hello Peterf,
From your descriptions of your problem, it will be the lower engine/gearbox mount, not the mounting on the end of the gearbox. It can be seen under the rear of the engine and also contains the idler bearing for the longer drive shaft.
I can guarantee that it will look in good order but it will have gone soft. I had the same symptoms on my oldest Activa, and after much checking on all the suspension, etc, it was the only mounting left.
After removal of the mounting and replacement of the rubber bush, the clunk was resolved and the engine movement was a lot less slack. Driving the car afterwards was much better, all that could be heard was the rattle of the rear ram bush!
Removal of the bush involves dismantling the driveshaft, removal of the mounting bracket, pressing out of the old bush and fitting the new unit, then refitting all the components in the reverse order. The only problem I experienced was removing the driveshaft bearing from the mounting bracket as it is fitted at the factory with a bonding compound to its outer race. A little heat applied to alloy bracket and a long prybar to push out the driveshaft saw it all resolved.
A WORD OF WARNING: Do not try to fit this bush into the bracket whilst it is still on the car, it has to be pressed in with a hydraulic press, to ensure it is fitted in the correct alignment.
Handyman, IKBA
From your descriptions of your problem, it will be the lower engine/gearbox mount, not the mounting on the end of the gearbox. It can be seen under the rear of the engine and also contains the idler bearing for the longer drive shaft.
I can guarantee that it will look in good order but it will have gone soft. I had the same symptoms on my oldest Activa, and after much checking on all the suspension, etc, it was the only mounting left.
After removal of the mounting and replacement of the rubber bush, the clunk was resolved and the engine movement was a lot less slack. Driving the car afterwards was much better, all that could be heard was the rattle of the rear ram bush!
Removal of the bush involves dismantling the driveshaft, removal of the mounting bracket, pressing out of the old bush and fitting the new unit, then refitting all the components in the reverse order. The only problem I experienced was removing the driveshaft bearing from the mounting bracket as it is fitted at the factory with a bonding compound to its outer race. A little heat applied to alloy bracket and a long prybar to push out the driveshaft saw it all resolved.
A WORD OF WARNING: Do not try to fit this bush into the bracket whilst it is still on the car, it has to be pressed in with a hydraulic press, to ensure it is fitted in the correct alignment.
Handyman, IKBA
I expect this is the common bottom mounting bush used on BX, ordinary Xantias and ZX. It can be fitted in situ - using nothing more than a block of wood and a hammer as I have done it. Alignment is no problem if you look at it and hit on opposite sides to keep the new bush straight. I deep froze mine and removed it from the freezer immediately before fitting - having laid the tools out first so it was as cold as possible before I started the job. I have heard of others (Anders?) running the engine till its hot and waiting for the heat to soak into the mounting ring - so that expands a little. Making sure the bush has a small lead in (The one I used had one probably an unintentional by product of some machine used during manufacture) and a bit of grease won't hurt.
On a BX the access is quite good - it may not be on an Activa. You need to be able to get a hacksaw in to cut the outer ring to remove the old bush and to have enough room to wield a hammer ( not extremely heavy blows but firm taps will be needed)
The bush is fastened to the chassis with a metal you which has a smaller similar bush at the other end. This should also be replaced and can be done with a moderate sized vice and spacers.
On a BX and ZX the bush can be seen from besides the drivers door if you crouch down. If you can see it you may be able to see movement when the engine is accelerated - and this will give some indication of its condition.
On a BX the access is quite good - it may not be on an Activa. You need to be able to get a hacksaw in to cut the outer ring to remove the old bush and to have enough room to wield a hammer ( not extremely heavy blows but firm taps will be needed)
The bush is fastened to the chassis with a metal you which has a smaller similar bush at the other end. This should also be replaced and can be done with a moderate sized vice and spacers.
On a BX and ZX the bush can be seen from besides the drivers door if you crouch down. If you can see it you may be able to see movement when the engine is accelerated - and this will give some indication of its condition.
jeremy
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petef
- Posts: 193
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- Location: Lochwinnoch,Scotland and Dordogne, France
- My Cars: DS DS5, C4 Coupe, DS23 Pallas, Xantia Activa
- x 11
'Le Clak est parti!!'
Many thanks for the advice given about possible causes of the clunk from the LHS front of my Activa
Turned out the CT (MOT) Tester was right - It WAS the engine/gearbox mounting. I know that this is not known to give much trouble and, in fact, turned out to be quite a simple problem - it had just come loose!!
Having removed the battery, battery tray and air filter box, I realised the mounting is a circular, rubber centered unit right underneath the ABS block. The top plate of the mounting is slotted in a fore/aft plane to take 2 T40 Torx bolts and, if the bolts become loose as mine had, the gearbox end of the engine can move backwards and forwards - especially in stop/start/reversing conditions until it comes to a sudden halt at the end of the slot, a movement of about 0.75cm. This produced the pronounced solid metal-to-metal clunk I was experiencing.
Access to the front bolt is reasonably OK, the rear bulkhead side one is a right pain and all but inaccessible without removing the ABS block which I did not fancy! In the end a short T40 key in a 10mm ring spanner and gaffa taped to it to prevent it falling out was small enough to just fit.
In hindsight ( a marvellously exact science) sufficient access can be gained by pulling out the air filter box only - there is really no need to remove the battery.
I now have a clunk free Activa!
Hope this may help someone somewhere - I have found the detailed helpful advice in this forum to be amazing.
Peterf
Many thanks for the advice given about possible causes of the clunk from the LHS front of my Activa
Turned out the CT (MOT) Tester was right - It WAS the engine/gearbox mounting. I know that this is not known to give much trouble and, in fact, turned out to be quite a simple problem - it had just come loose!!
Having removed the battery, battery tray and air filter box, I realised the mounting is a circular, rubber centered unit right underneath the ABS block. The top plate of the mounting is slotted in a fore/aft plane to take 2 T40 Torx bolts and, if the bolts become loose as mine had, the gearbox end of the engine can move backwards and forwards - especially in stop/start/reversing conditions until it comes to a sudden halt at the end of the slot, a movement of about 0.75cm. This produced the pronounced solid metal-to-metal clunk I was experiencing.
Access to the front bolt is reasonably OK, the rear bulkhead side one is a right pain and all but inaccessible without removing the ABS block which I did not fancy! In the end a short T40 key in a 10mm ring spanner and gaffa taped to it to prevent it falling out was small enough to just fit.
In hindsight ( a marvellously exact science) sufficient access can be gained by pulling out the air filter box only - there is really no need to remove the battery.
I now have a clunk free Activa!
Hope this may help someone somewhere - I have found the detailed helpful advice in this forum to be amazing.
Peterf
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handyman
- Posts: 1111
- Joined: 20 May 2003, 18:38
- Location: In the clouds in the Land of South Saxons
- My Cars:
- x 2
Jeremy,
Trying to change this bush on an Activa is not posible as there is no clearance to align the bushing. I have tried even using a portable press with turned press tools. The casting is more substantial than the ordinary Xantia one, where these can be done in situ. Although I think that hammering in a pressed part is still a bodge expected by a back street garage.
handyman
Trying to change this bush on an Activa is not posible as there is no clearance to align the bushing. I have tried even using a portable press with turned press tools. The casting is more substantial than the ordinary Xantia one, where these can be done in situ. Although I think that hammering in a pressed part is still a bodge expected by a back street garage.
handyman
Handyman - I deliberately qualified my postings on the subject of replacing the bush with a reference to the question of access.
Many jobs on cars are done even by specialists by methods other than those laid down in the manufacturers manual - considerations seem to be cost, available tools, personal preference, physical strength, difficulty of doing things the correct way (ie likelihood of seized bolts etc which could be left alone if the job were done another way) to name but a few. Providing the end is correct and nothing is damaged on the way I can't see it makes much difference.
Even manufacturers recommend quite surprising methods. For example the official Jaguar Series 111 workshop manual recommends that for repairing damage to the end of a back wing consideration be given to cutting the appropriate section from a new wing and using that part only rather than unpicking all the welds round the whole wing.
Many jobs on cars are done even by specialists by methods other than those laid down in the manufacturers manual - considerations seem to be cost, available tools, personal preference, physical strength, difficulty of doing things the correct way (ie likelihood of seized bolts etc which could be left alone if the job were done another way) to name but a few. Providing the end is correct and nothing is damaged on the way I can't see it makes much difference.
Even manufacturers recommend quite surprising methods. For example the official Jaguar Series 111 workshop manual recommends that for repairing damage to the end of a back wing consideration be given to cutting the appropriate section from a new wing and using that part only rather than unpicking all the welds round the whole wing.
jeremy