No Black Smoke

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MikeT
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No Black Smoke

Post by MikeT »

Quite the opposite to metgreentd's post, I can't produce black smoke and I suspect my TD is down on power. What sort of acceleration should I expect? First gear is too short, second doesn't impress me, third gear gives the best power as 4th & 5th are susceptible to uphill gradients.
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Post by jeremy »

Is what you're saying that it feels as though there is no turbo?

The turbo boost is 2 components - the additional air supplied by the turbo and additional fuel to be burnt in this extra air. The need for extra fuel is communicated to an 'Extra Fuel device' on the pump by an air hose (1/2 inch on Bosch??? - small pipe on Roto-Diesel) and its very common for this pipe to drop off, split or whatever.

Its easy to check - you're looking for a pipe between the air trunking and the injection pump. On the Bosch I think the extra fuel device is a thing someone described as looking like a flying saucer on the top of the pump - on the Roto-Diesel its on the front of the pump and is cylindrical about 2 inches in diameter.
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Post by MikeT »

Hi jeremy,
I can feel the effect of the turbo come in around 2.2Krpm but after the intitial boost the acceleration doesn't improve - it's just linear - and seems to run out steam by 4Krpm leaving a rather narrow powerband.

I think I know the pipe you mean (I've got Bosch pump) and it is split after the clip so could well be in need of replacing. I've never tackled those clips before now, can they be re-used? Should I get replacements or jubilee clips instead?

Can the flying saucer be serviced/lubricated as well?
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Post by CitroJim »

The powerband you describe is about right for a 1.9TD in my experience Mike.

You're right, that pipe does need changing but often you can get away with shortening it a little. Cut it back a little way past the split but do carefully inspect the full length of it.

The clips can be re-used with care. I have but it can be a little hit and miss. Some you win and some you loose. Try gently inserting a very small screwdriver or pointed object (either a jewellers screwdriver or scriber) into the folded part that forms the latch of the clip and twist gently, the clip should spring apart. Have a look at a bigger version on the LHM reservior for instance to understand how it works first. Then to reattach, use a pair of small pliers (needle nosed work well) to gently compress the clip so the tooth just hooks back over on one edge first, the rest, with a little gentle persuasion, will follow. Whatever you do, take great care not to strain the spigots on the trunking or pump in trying to get these clips off and risk damage. If they wont pop open easily use a big pair of side-cutters to snip them off. Better to wreck a clip than a spigot!

I've used high quality cable ties (Ty-Raps) in the past with no ill effects but they need to be the wide, stout type and not the little tiddly thin ones. Otherwise get some good fuel-line type Jubilee clips, the type with a nut and bolt on them. They are sized fairly closely to the pipe. The standard Jubilee is not really up to this type of job.

There is nothing that needs to be done to the flying saucer, leave well alone!!!

Whilst you're in this area check the rest of the turbo trunking for leaks, loose clips and splits.
Jim

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Post by MikeT »

I've checked all visible-to-me pipes and ducting, it's where it disappears behind the engine or behind the radiator that I haven't checked for leaks.

I'll replace the pipe from the fuel pump and see if that makes any difference. Will leave the UFO for now then :)
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Post by mezuk04a »

2.2 to 4 seems about right compared to my Xantia.
Golf 55' 1.9TD
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Post by Peter.N. »

The engine will only pull strongly between 2000 and 3000 rpm, over that you are just wasting fuel. If you can feel turbo boost then the pressure sensing tube will probably be OK. Have you changed the fuel filter lately? they can restrict the fuel supply if clogged. Has the car suddenly developed this problem? if its always been like it, maybe the fueling is set to low, quite easy to adjust if you have a Bosch pump, there is a sealed screw just above the injector pipes, turn it clockwise and it will increase the fuel, only a fraction at a time though, it makes a lot of difference.
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Post by RichardW »

Both my 1.9TD Xantias have been as flat as when I got them. A few months, and 000 miles of giving them some stick and they loosen up nicely - they do seem to need to worked hard, and kept that way, to keep them nice and loose 8) 2.2k - 4k rpm gives you 30 - 80 mph in 3rd/4th how much more power band do you need? Just need to adapt to driving it on the torque, rather than trying to rev it like one of those silly multi-valve petrol thingies.... :twisted: It will probably smoke if you hold your nerve and rev it round to 4.5k under load. Not recommended though unless you are confident the cam belt is OK....

Interestingly I test drove a 2.1TD last week - and that was even slower than my 1.9, so definitely in need of some 'exercise' :lol:
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Post by CitroJim »

RichardW wrote:Both my 1.9TD Xantias have been as flat as when I got them. A few months, and 000 miles of giving them some stick and they loosen up nicely - they do seem to need to worked hard, and kept that way, to keep them nice and loose 8)
Fully agreed Richard, mine always feels best after a good long haul of the caravan :D

I find they perform best when kept in the powerband and allowed to rev and run freely and easily, they don't like lugging along slowly in a high gear and low revs and anything above 4K, as you say, is pointless. Use the gearbox to keep them between 2K and 3K and they're magic. The 1.9TD does not, paradoxically, have much low-down grunt in my experience, unlike the 1769 NA Diesel in Dad's 205D. What does the 2.1TD feel like low-down Richard?

What I find strange nowadays is my Activa (2.0 petrol CT) has far more low-end grunt than a 1.9TD and is quite happy pottering through town in a high gear at around 1200rpm and it will still happily accelerate away. Very paradoxical for a petrol engine :wink:
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Post by RichardW »

Citrojim wrote:What does the 2.1TD feel like low-down Richard?
No idea - like I say the one I drove was flat as anything - wouldn't pull at all below 2k rpm. It also had very hard rear suspension which made the ride awful - only drove it about 1mile, but that was enough!

There's a 2.0CT Exclusive Estate for sale not far from me, which sounds really nice. 25k miles/year and 25mpg just does not compute though :cry:
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Post by CitroJim »

RichardW wrote:There's a 2.0CT Exclusive Estate for sale not far from me, which sounds really nice. 25k miles/year and 25mpg just does not compute though :cry:
That is the big problem with what is otherwise a gem of an engine. You get be be a very well known, regular visitor at your local petrol station :D
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Post by Peter.N. »

The 2.1 in the XM pulls very well low down, much better than than the 1.9. We have owned quite a few of both, the only one that went really well was the BX, and that was a 1.7! but a very light car. The XM will pull with gentle throttle, down to tickover, and pulls reasonably well at 1500 rpm before the turbo comes in, although its much better at 2k+. The fuel consumption of the 2.1 is also better, my XM estates (manual) will exceed 50 mpg driven reasonably gently on a longish run, which, taking into account the additional weight is better than my wifes ZX.
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Post by MikeT »

Peter.N. wrote:The engine will only pull strongly between 2000 and 3000 rpm. If you can feel turbo boost then the pressure sensing tube will probably be OK. Have you changed the fuel filter lately? ... maybe the fueling is set to low, quite easy to adjust if you have a Bosch pump, there is a sealed screw just above the injector pipes, turn it clockwise and it will increase the fuel, only a fraction at a time though, it makes a lot of difference.
I haven't owned the car long but have done lots of miles. I've changed the glow plugs, leak-off pipes, air filter, fuel filter, oil filter and oil, front & rear brake pads - brakes are not binding by the way.

I can't decide if it pulls strongly, or just pulls. At urban speeds, I'm having to constantly work the gears, especially when climbing even shallow gradients. It doesn't give great consumption with a feather foot and it doesn't produce black smoke with a heavy boot - at any revs.
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Post by MikeT »

RichardW wrote:Both my 1.9TD Xantias have been as flat as when I got them. A few months, and 000 miles of giving them some stick and they loosen up nicely - they do seem to need to worked hard, and kept that way, to keep them nice and loose 8) 2.2k - 4k rpm gives you 30 - 80 mph in 3rd/4th how much more power band do you need? Just need to adapt to driving it on the torque, rather than trying to rev it like one of those silly multi-valve petrol thingies.... :twisted: It will probably smoke if you hold your nerve and rev it round to 4.5k under load. Not recommended though unless you are confident the cam belt is OK
I can adapt ok, I've driven and ridden a range of different power trains but this one just doesn't seem right. 1st gear runs out of range before I've even pulled onto a roundabout! 2nd just pulls ok, 3rd seems best and 4th gets lazy in my opinion. Perhaps I'm expecting too much but I want black smoke :lol:
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Post by Peter.N. »

If its been like this since you bought it, I would suggest that its under fueled, it has possibly been altered to get it through the emissions test. One of my XMs will go up a local hill a gear higher than the other, and that one doesn't smoke, it also has a new engine in it. If the seal is broken on the fueling screw, that should be a fair indication, a little tweak will make a lot of difference to the performance, but to much will make it smoke. If it pulls better at lower revs it will mean less gear changing which should equate to better fuel consumption.
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