Xantia TD Hot Start Woes

Post by **CitroJim** » 19 Jun 2007, 13:54

nexarius wrote: I'd rather like it for my own car (if we could fix it!) but the insurance for someone my age is a bit ridiculous. The cheapest I've found is just over £1600/year!

How old are you? My lad at 22 is insuring a Nissan 200SX for under £500 per year...

nexarius · Post by **nexarius** » 19 Jun 2007, 14:13

I am 18. I am currently a named driver on a Focus 1.6 petrol and its costing me around £600 a year.

Direct Line downright refused to insure me on a Xantia when we were investigating when I was learning, and other insurers seem to just charge an awful lot of money.

£1600/year was the *cheapest* I could find!

Any tips on how I can get it cheaper?

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 19 Jun 2007, 21:43

nexarius wrote:Hi Guys,

I havn't checked the leakoff pipes because I don't know what they are, but having searched the forum a bit I think I know what I'm looking for.

There is no smoke emitted when it is turning over. There is a fairlly substantial amount of whitish smoke when it does eventually fire. This smoke would not normally be there if it had started right away.

Also, when looking in the engine when starting it, we can see a single 'puff' of smoke or something when it does fire. Just a single puff, from near the back of the engine.

Matt

Hi Matt, I was experiencing the same hot start propelm and recently had my glow plugs and leak-off pipes replaced and at the same time, noticed the smoke from the engine bay was emitted from the EGR valve due to a certain pipe not being conntected. After refitting, the car starts first time hot or cold.

nexarius · Post by **nexarius** » 19 Jun 2007, 21:47

Hey 'MikeT',

Do you mean that replacing the leakoff pipes and the glow plugs fixed the problem, or re-connecting the EGR pipe?

Was the pipe just not connected or something?

More information please!!

Much Appreciated,

Matt

MikeT · Post by **MikeT** » 19 Jun 2007, 22:24

I don't know, all three jobs were done before I tested it. My pipe was not connected to the valve. Locate your EGR valve and see if the pipe is still attached.

If you're going to replace the leak-off pipes, might as well do the glow plugs too if you can.

nexarius · Post by **nexarius** » 19 Jun 2007, 22:26

The glow-plugs were done fairly recently.

I think doing the leakoff pipes sounds like a good idea though.

Anyone got tips on the EGR thing? From reading the forum it sounds like some people *suggest* that it is disconnected.

Post by **CitroJim** » 19 Jun 2007, 22:54

nexarius wrote:Anyone got tips on the EGR thing? From reading the forum it sounds like some people *suggest* that it is disconnected.

Yep, it never hurts to replace the leakoff pipes

Halfrauds do a little kit complete with the end caps.

The EGR valve can be disabled (kept closed) by blocking its vacuum supply from the electrovalve mounted on the bulkhead. Even better is to remove it and block the ports in the manifolds but this is a lot of work on a TD. It's a bit inaccessible

EGR is there to cut down NOX emissions. In practice all it does is fill the inlet manifold with nasty, oily, gooey soot and that is not good. A recent post also said it gets down the inlet ports and coats the underside of the inlet valves.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 19 Jun 2007, 23:49

There is one possibility which is quite common on BMW powered Vauxhall Omega's, although I have never heard of it with a peugeot engine, and that is pump wear. If bores/plungers wear, the gap between them opens up when hot and prevents enough fuel being injected, which of course cures itself when cold. There is a simple test for this, when the engine is hot enough not to start, empty a bucket of water over the pump to cool it down. Dont use very cold water or you might crack something! Just slightly warm should do the job.

nexarius · Post by **nexarius** » 05 Jul 2007, 12:57

I bought the vehicle off my dad and I have begun my investigative probing!

I charged up the [brand new] battery completely last night, but today the cranking is still really really slow. Last time we measured the voltage drop it was something like 0.2 of a volt across each connection, and it cranks like the battery is almost flat, so I'm considering a new starter motor.

Also, when I stopped the engine, after a few minutes a whistling began from the injector pump. It sounds to me like the whistling of air.

If I squeeze the priming grenade, the whilsting instantly stops, and starts again after about 30 seconds.

I notice when I turn the ignition on, there is no audible 'whirr' of any priming happening, so I'm thinking perhaps air is getting in and not getting primed out?

I primed it myself and it started on the 4th compression stroke, but then it had only been running for 20 minutes so it wasn't that hot.

There is also smoke coming out of the device that has the temperature sensor and the oil dipstick on it, amonst a maze of piping. I have no idea what the device does, but it occured to me it probably shouldn't be smoking (especially since the ban!

).

Also there is a small amount of LHM on the top of the alternator. Looks like the pump might be leaking

Thoughts?

Matt

Post by **Peter.N.** » 05 Jul 2007, 13:55

If the cranking speed is high enough to start it from cold it should start it more easily when hot - unless it isnt turning as fast. Air ingress could be a problem but this is more likely to happen when the car has been standing and is therefore cold.

Brian UK · Post by **Brian UK** » 05 Jul 2007, 14:32

From my experiences with PSA diesels.
Certainly on the 1.5 D engine, the valve clearances close up when hot, the opposite to what I always believed. Adjusting them cured the hot start problem on that engine.
I also had a similar problem on the 405TD. Replaced the primer pump which did nothing. Also checked the valve clearances. However, I did notice some air bubbles in the clear pipe from the filter to the inj. pump.
Fault turned out to be a leak on the filter housing, which only occurred when the engine was hot.
The leak was on a blanking plug at the bottom rear of the housing. We replaced the housing rather than try to repair.

nexarius · Post by **nexarius** » 05 Jul 2007, 15:33

Going on the basis that since it bump starts easily, and turns over really slowly even with a newly charged brand new battery, I've just bought a new starter motor from our friends at GSF. 94 quid for the motor but a surcharge of 40 which gets refunded if I take the old one back.

I also bought some leakoff pipe and an end cap (5 pounds for the lot!), since I thought it wouldn't hurt to change them for the hell of it.

Now all I have to do is work out how to change a starter motor!

Haynes manual here we come....

Post by **Peter.N.** » 05 Jul 2007, 16:46

The starters do become sluggish on the XUD's after a time, so its got to be an improvement.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 05 Jul 2007, 16:52

XUD cam clearances increase when the engine gets hot. The camshaft is mounted directly above the valves - held in the alloy cylinder head. The alloy expands more than the steel valve, shim and tappet - so the clearance increases.

XUD's can suffer from starting problems due to insufficient valve clearance but the common experience is that this happens at cold - usually starting on 3 and the 4th cutting in a few seconds later as the head warms and the valve shuts properly.

The 1.5 is a different engine and I think operates its valves through rockers. The arrangement of the rockers could possibly cause the opposite effect.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 05 Jul 2007, 17:07

You learn something new every day!

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Xantia TD Hot Start Woes

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