LHM in bulk (but not too much bulk)

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 23 Apr 2007, 15:46

Will be draining out the hydraflush at the weekend and replenishing it with lovely green blood.
I've been looking around the web for supplies of LHM greater than 1Ltr, but so far only found 20Ltrs for £100 which is a bit too much and considering they said it was also for the C5 and C6, I think I'll give them a miss.

I'm looking for a 5ltr container, like what hydraflush comes in.
Can anyone point me in the right direction?

Post by **CitroJim** » 23 Apr 2007, 15:55

Pop into Motorserv in Old Wolverton..

Last time I was there they had Delphi LHM in 5L containers at around £22.

Xaccers · Post by **Xaccers** » 23 Apr 2007, 16:07

Cheers Jim!

steelcityuk · Post by **steelcityuk** » 23 Apr 2007, 16:55

I bought some Car Plan LHM at the local indie 5 litres for £16.99.

Steve.

slim123 · Post by **slim123** » 23 Apr 2007, 19:19

As you have now taken the care to flush the system through, do youself a favour and only use Castrol or Total LHM.

It may cost a few quid more but it's worth it.

Regards
Slim.

Post by **CitroJim** » 23 Apr 2007, 19:32

slim123 wrote:As you have now taken the care to flush the system through, do youself a favour and only use Castrol or Total LHM.

It may cost a few quid more but it's worth it.

Regards
Slim.

Interesting Slim,

So not all brands of LHM are made equal then? Can you please elaborate as to why Castrol or Total is the LHM of choice?

I guess because it is a Total/Citroen specialist product, there are no recognised standards for the formulation of LHM as there is with the API ratings of engine oils.

I have noticed that Delphi LHM is a dull green, rather than a nice neon bright green.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 23 Apr 2007, 19:46

I think you'll find that LHM has to be produced to a Citroen standard. I don't expect it stipulates exactly how much dye has to be added.

I suppose one brand is better than another in the same way some people say that one engine oil is better than another. I've never heard of anyone who seized an engine by using a cheap (or expensive for that matter) of the correct specification (Apart from my Father who had a Singer SM 1500 seize when its oil was changed for a new fangled detergent oil in about 1955) so I'd be interested to hear what a 'Good' LHM will do for my car.

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 23 Apr 2007, 20:56

There are differences (including viscocity) between LHM and LHM+ perhaps some of the "3rd party" brands still follow the original LHM formulation ?

Just a thought.

Regards,
Simon

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 23 Apr 2007, 21:20

Personnally I prefer to use Total as I'm familiar with the changes of its colour from luminous green to yellow etc which I use to judge the condition of the LHM.

Post by **CitroJim** » 23 Apr 2007, 21:40

Delphi LHM is LHM+ according to my can of the stuff.

Yes, Simon, I believe the viscosity of LHM+ is slightly lower than the original LHM. I recall reading somewhere that owners of early LHM Citroens had a few problems with leaks after changing from LHM to LHM+

The main property of LHM, I believe, apart from its kindness to seals etc, is that it has an incredibly high Viscosity Index (VI) to ensure that the behaviour of the suspension system remains relatively constant over a very wide temperature range. VI being a measure of an oil to maintain a given viscosity over a range of temperatures.

I recall reading a very interesting thread over on Aussiefrogs that looked at alternatives to LHM (I believe it is not that readily available nor cheap in some areas of the Antipodes) and nothing came close to the VI of genuine LHM. The closest was a type of blue hydraulic fluid if memory serves me.

DickieG wrote: Personnally I prefer to use Total as I'm familiar with the changes of its colour from luminous green to yellow etc which I use to judge the condition of the LHM.

Now, going on my observation that Delphi LHM is a dull green, I'm wondering if it will eventually change colour as rapidly as say, Total LHM. Maybe the luminious component is specially there to create a yellow colour to indicate it requires changing. This looks to be missing from the Delphi brew. Trouble is, I've not run Delphi long enough to see any colour change although it has been in my TD for getting on for two years and 20,000 miles now.

When does Total LHM begin to change colour?

slim123 · Post by **slim123** » 23 Apr 2007, 22:38

Just simply my own opinion based on personal experience over the years.

Cheaper oils although up to specifications are not usually as good and do not retain the viscosity throughout their life. (this is the same for LHM as engine oil)

Some times (especialy on the old DS and CX with 7 cylinder pumps) if you use the cheaper brand, the pump is noisier.

Some times on all cars, when you use the cheaper brands, you get a buzzing sensation from the brake valve, (feels like crushing a wasp on the brake pedal)

Leak past through the return lines can be faster with cheaper fluids.

Steering hiss from the control unit in the CX power steering is worse with cheaper brands.

This is just a small sample of some of the problems that have been cured in the past by simply draining the system and replacing with decent LHM.

Like I said this is only my opinion, I would not put anthing other than Castrol or Total LHM in the tank.

Wise words from my father years ago when I got my first car. "Cheap oil is sometimes the most expensive oil you can buy"

Regards
Slim.

rossnunn · Post by **rossnunn** » 23 Apr 2007, 23:20

bypartsbuy (saf) had 5l LHM on the shelf, comma I think.

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 23 Apr 2007, 23:47

I would have strong reservations about the difference in brands being also differing in quality as I would expect it would be made under licence so fairly strictly controlled.
A typical example is Castrol Transmax M which is used in cars where a Dexron 11 fluid is specified and Catrol TransmaxZ where a Dexron 111 is required. Now Dex fluids and Transmax are considered "the same" and the Castrol fluids IMO are far superior to the Dex 11 & 111 (due obviously to some changes in mix) but Castrol don't advertise them as Dex fluids and I would imagine the same would apply to LHM and LHM+ otherwise it would breach all kinds of copyright and patent laws as well as making the ones breaching the licence liable under consumer laws.
I recently brokered a deal between an Importer of Total oils and a local guy I know who runs a small independent oil blending business and at the end of the day, the small operator buys the Total LHM+ in bulk, rebottles in 5 litre containers and resells at a cheaper price than I was buying 20 litre batches directly from the total guy for yet it is the dead identical product.

Alan S

_kid_ · Post by **_kid_** » 24 Apr 2007, 00:06

I don’t why anyone would not buy total LHM from gsf (in the uk at least), circa £4.70 per litre, 4 litres is normally enough per change, therefore £19 for genuine total LHM, why bother with anything else?

Having said that comma, Castrol and maybe some other are of equal quality,

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 24 Apr 2007, 02:33

_kid_ wrote:... comma, Castrol and maybe some other are of equal quality,

You asked for it kid

How on earth would you know - or even document - that ?
TBH you are basing it purely on assumptions - right

We are back in the good old "genuine branded box spareparts are better" discussions.
I dont mind people have personal preferences for any brand of oil. But stop these headless statements about quality based alone on the brand name.

Read upthread once more the post from AlanS.