Timing belt lower pulley keyway nightmare.....

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 01 Apr 2007, 11:01

i allways tighten the crank bolt with my 2 foot knuckle bar,and someone locking the flywheel with an apropreate lever in through the openning in the top of the clutch housing,do not put thread lock between the crank sprocket and or pully,otherwise you will have one heck of a job removing it the next time,so thread lock only on the bolt
regards malcolm

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 01 Apr 2007, 13:12

Agreed Malcolm.

I have Locktited my pulleys and keyway simply because of the damage to the slot in the crankshaft, and therfore fear of moving (which is probably unfounded).

Lockite is destroyed at around 220ºC, so a blowlamp will suffice in 80K when the next belt is due to be changed. As I am aware, this will not present a problem provided the oil seal is replaced as well - always a good idea anyway. Threadlock on the bolt should NEVER be #638 (green), but #234 (blue) - much softer.

i allways tighten the crank bolt with my 2 foot knuckle bar,and someone locking the flywheel with an apropreate lever in through the openning in the top of the clutch housing,do not put thread lock between the crank sprocket and or pully,otherwise you will have one heck of a job removing it the next time,so thread lock only on the bolt

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 01 Apr 2007, 14:54

i would not use a blow tourch on the pullys either,as they are made up out of two pieces bonded with rubber
regards malcolm

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 01 Apr 2007, 15:08

Given that a secondhand pulley cost me £18, plus €9 Euros for the oil seal, this does not represent any real problem in 4 or 5 years time Malcolm... point is that the engine has only covered 75K, and is in otherwise excellent health. Goes like s**t of of the shovel, and dead quiet. Well pleased.

i would not use a blow tourch on the pullys either,as they are made up out of two pieces bonded with rubber

Angus · Post by **Angus** » 01 Apr 2007, 19:30

OK, things have gone well, the car is back together and running, but......

I'm concerned slightly by a small amount of smoke after reving the engine a few times, after it returns to idle the exhaust produces a bit of white smoke, not a lot just a small amount, it subsides after a minuit and then does not smoke. On the rev upwards it does produce a small amount of black smoke, but only a small amount.

I dont think I messed up the timing, I put 8mm bolts through the pump and cam pulleys, they would only fit in one location. I used a piece of 8mm studding to locate through the hole behind the starter and lock into the flywheel, I removed the starter to do this!!!!

The woodruff key was from memory at about 2 o'clock not the previously mentioned 7 o'clock...... maybe its the time zone difference between here and France! I take it there wouldnt be 2 holes 180 degrees apart? I would have thought if I had it so drasticly wrong the engine wouldnt have started?

There was a bit of movment in the upper pulleys with the bolts in place, but checking this revealed it was not enough to cause the timing to be one tooth out, so I proceded.......

I am not very familiar with diesel and all this may be normal?

I guess some reasurance is sought...

Thanks all for the help and advice, its been fantastic!!!!

Best regards
Angus

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 01 Apr 2007, 20:33

Have you driven the car? If not its not really possible to assess the situation as there may well be muck in the exhaust which just confuses things.

When the engine decelerates the injection pump should not deliver any fuel by design. There are anti-stall devices to stop it stalling and Haynes gives instructions for adjusting.

White smoke is unburnt but atomised fuel (unless its condensation), black smoke is partially burnt fuel.

Does it sound right - or is it unusually noisy or quiet. This is a rough and ready indication of the timing.

Do you know which injection pump is fitted to your car?

Angus · Post by **Angus** » 01 Apr 2007, 21:31

Hi Jeremy, No, I have not driven the car yet. I will put some fresh diesel in it tomorrow as the stuff in there is over 6 months old. Its got a Lucas pump, unsure of which type but it has a pressure actuated turbo boost enrichment device on the side with a blk rubber pipe to the intercooler.

It may be just the old diesel, but there is a definate acrid smell about the exhaust and also at the engine compartment. Im not very knowlagable with Diesel engines. It does sound OK as in no strange noises and not to rough or loud.

I hope I have assembled it correctly! I dont think I have the lools or skill to actualy check the timing.

Dont want to waste your time with maybe's so I will investigate further tomorrow and get some more facts along with what it drives like.

Thanks Angus

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 01 Apr 2007, 22:06

Its likely that you have a fair amount of diesel in the exhaust. I don't think the stuff ages like petrol so that is unlikely to be the problem.

I know that both my BX and ZX will produce considerable amounts of steam which is noticeable after dark in headlights of a following car when accelerating for the first few times with a cold exhaust.

Don't get worried yet. If the timing was far out the valves will hit the pistons and do severe damage. The pump timing won't have changed unless someone has fiddled (you can probably verify by looking at the mounting face and the bolts.)

The tensioner is on the slack side of the belt and will not vary the effective length which is the pull side between the crank and the camshaft via the pump. (Some petrols have 2 tensioners - one each side - so the timing can be altered with them!)

Angus · Post by **Angus** » 02 Apr 2007, 22:39

Well, I went for a very short drive today and it seems a lot better, it does smoke slightly on start up and possibly a little running, but no visable plume when driving!

When starting it for the first time when cold, after waiting for the heaters it does stutter a little but after that its fine. I changed the heater plugs as part of the preliminary investigations and ajusted the cold start cable from the "wax stat" to the pump, but I think I may have under adjusted it.

I have had to tighten the auxilary belt quite tight to stop the lower lenght of the belt making a slapping noise.

I think its OK and I'm just being paranoid.

I will get it MOT tested asap and I am sure that will throw up any problems with smoke emmissions.

I have a few other questions but I will start a new post!

Thank you all for your help on this!!!

Angus

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 02 Apr 2007, 23:04

Time to give it the Roman's 'who's boss test' after dark on the motorway... clear its throat so's to speak. Aux belt needs to be pretty tight.

It'll be just fine now.

Well, I went for a very short drive today and it seems a lot better, it does smoke slightly on start up and possibly a little running, but no visable plume when driving!

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 02 Apr 2007, 23:18

If its a Roto-diesel pump the waxstat operates a simple electric switch - and is on or off - so the adjustment isn't really critical. It simply advances the timing which reduces smoke when cold and is designed to reduce smoke. If it doesn't work it often doesn't seem to make much difference except the thing idles a bit slowly when cold. Emission tests are conducted hot.

jgra1 · Post by **jgra1** » 03 Apr 2007, 10:33

When in time the crank woodruff key is at about 7 o'clock.

chaps sorry to hijack this, some of you may remember my friends TD suffering a loack of compression.. I have still to try and check the timing properly with the flywheel lock...

now I think Malcolm said the woodruff key should be pointing at the front edge of the raised block on the side of the engine, that is about 11 oclock?

Citrojim i think you mentioned 7, and Angus you said you thought yours was (had moved) to 2?

now i am confused

what time is right, for this timing issue...
John

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 03 Apr 2007, 11:31

Eleven o'clock is correct - in reality it is at 12 o'clock to the block and the crankshaft - the engine is is canted rearwards in the car....

Citrojim i think you mentioned 7, and Angus you said you thought yours was (had moved) to 2?

now i am confused what time is right, for this timing issue...

Angus · Post by **Angus** » 03 Apr 2007, 12:07

I may have got the 7 o'clock bit wrong, its not that dificult to remove the three starter bolts with an allan key and pull the starter away to reveal the 8mm hole, no need to disconnect it electrically. I used a bit of 8mm studding and this provided a very accurate location of the timing. Actualy as they go the timing belt on these engines is a relativly easy one to check and change, once someone has told you about the bolts to lock the timing!

Angus

Post by **CitroJim** » 03 Apr 2007, 12:24

Angus wrote:I may have got the 7 o'clock bit wrong, its not that dificult to remove the three starter bolts with an allan key and pull the starter away to reveal the 8mm hole, no need to disconnect it electrically. I used a bit of 8mm studding and this provided a very accurate location of the timing. Actualy as they go the timing belt on these engines is a relativly easy one to check and change, once someone has told you about the bolts to lock the timing!

Angus

Lol is right, it is more like 11 o'clock. I was working from memory and I never could tell the time very well on a clock

. The method you have used with the studding is perfect and guarantees the timing is right. You can get away with not removing the starter if you have a suitably shaped bit of rod and "feel" for the hole behind the starter. It is easier to do on some engines than others though.