new car

suzie · Post by **suzie** » 06 Mar 2007, 15:05

hi guys.my husband has recently injured his foot and it looks like we will have to get an automatic for him to continue driving. we have had citroens for years and would like to stay citroen if poss,would also prefer diesel,do diesels and autos go well together or would it be best to go back to petrol?if not citroen can anyone recomend a good automatic car?we are looking to get one about 4 years old.thanks.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 06 Mar 2007, 18:07

Sorry to hear about your husband. Yes , diesel engines and auto boxes do go very well together, but you need to get a fairly powerful one as the auto box consumes quite a bit. So if you are looking at one with a choice of engines, get the one with the highest power output.

micitroen · Post by **micitroen** » 06 Mar 2007, 18:15

Diesels and autos were seemingly made for each other when you see low revs combine with a smooth power output but the torque they produce used to rip up many a good g/box. So a lot of manufacturers gave up on the idea.
I've got a BX Diesel Auto and its great (others liken it to a slug; each to their own opinion) and in the past my wife had a ZX Diesel auto; which I found to be very acceptable, it all depends on what you want.
These days the C5 comes as a full auto (I think) or one of these flappy paddle man/auto things, never driven one but there are loads out there and there are a lot at the age you are looking to buy....wait for others views and check all the forums. And I hate to say it but there are other manufacturers out there......I do like the Citroen D/autos though and all the newer ones (read C5) are turbos and are no slugs any more still getting 45 mpg.....anyone help me out here?
Only way is to drive some though, no good getting it and finding out you absolutely hate it.
Mike

Post by **Peter.N.** » 06 Mar 2007, 22:01

Hi Mike

I personally hate auto's but appreciate that they have there place.

I notice that you have a CX25 DTR Turbo. I am going to see at one on Thursday, looks pretty good. I ran them for about 10 years and several hundred thousand miles. Have you had any head gasket problems with yours? only my last one needed a gasket about every 15k and with a total of over 150k that was a lot of gaskets. I know they had problems with pourous blocks, just wondered if they had overcome the problem.

Peter.N.

micitroen · Post by **micitroen** » 07 Mar 2007, 00:19

Hi Peter,
re the auto bit don't get me wrong I like a good manual but round here and that means N.London they are simply a way of building up your left leg muscles, plus the fact that I drive a manual every day about 50,000 a year min.
I got the car about a year ago and have had no probs so far but I have only done about a thousand miles in it in that time so just wait for the MOT this month to find out I s'pose.....but on the H/gasket question I believe I've got the best deal as its a MK2 car with MK1 engine don't know much more about it but know that it was the Mk2s that had the porous blocks. I actually love the looks and interior of the MK1 car so would have been even more pleased with car matching the engine so to speak.
Hope to have a bit more time after this summer to ejoy and really start to get to know the DTR.....let us know how you get on.

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 07 Mar 2007, 00:59

Just to help give the full story and 'balance'

, sooner or later someone's
going to have to pipe in and be all negative here so being fully qualified
(at being negative that is

) it must be pointed out that Citroen
autoboxes aren't worth diddly squat zilch nowt...

Unless you want heartache, big bills and intense frustration with your totally
fantastic car that can't move forwards but can drive in reverse all day long.

Like everything else, these are great WHEN they're working but in my bitter
experience they have a short lifespan; if you plan on keeping the car for
some time the only available course would be to get as young and low
mileage AND pampered an auto that you can find/afford.

Sad fact though, is Citroen don't use a good brand of autobox!
Anything WITHOUT ZF in it's name'll probably do a grand job though...

Me bitter!? Hell yes...
Andrew

alan s · Post by **alan s** » 07 Mar 2007, 01:16

andmcit wrote:Just to help give the full story and 'balance' , sooner or later someone's
going to have to pipe in and be all negative here so being fully qualified
(at being negative that is ) it must be pointed out that Citroen
autoboxes aren't worth diddly squat zilch nowt...

Unless you want heartache, big bills and intense frustration with your totally
fantastic car that can't move forwards but can drive in reverse all day long.

Like everything else, these are great WHEN they're working but in my bitter
experience they have a short lifespan; if you plan on keeping the car for
some time the only available course would be to get as young and low
mileage AND pampered an auto that you can find/afford.

Sad fact though, is Citroen don't use a good brand of autobox!
Anything WITHOUT ZF in it's name'll probably do a grand job though...

Me bitter!? Hell yes...
Andrew

Been down this track so many times I've lost count.

ZF boxes if maintained properly are one of the World's best. If not maintained properly, can be a headache.
Life expectancy of a properly maintained ZF auto according to friends I have in the industry is unknown, as they are often still going troublefree at 5/600,000 klms when the rest of the car has fallen to bits or something else terminal has happened to the car.
Biggest proven killer of these is the incorrect grade of ATF being used.
Most have specified either Dexron 11 (2) or an Esso part number special fluid. The failures have usually been dosed up with Dexron 111 (3) which is NOT an upgrade of Dex2 (as is sometimes claimed) but in fact a totally different fluid.
The call signs of a D2 or Esso fluid box being poisoned with D3 is colour of used fluid is black, hanging on in gears, snatchy gearchanges, flaring in gears, feeling as though it doesn't know which gear it's supposed to be in.
Sometimes, if the box has been run on D3, it can be changed to D2 and a few changes made of fresh fluid and it will come good, but on other occasions, it spells the deathknock for them, so it's very important to sight service records and see which fluid has been used. Then check the cars specs and see if it is the EXACT same fluid that they have used. If not, walk away.
Symptom of a box damaged through incorrect fluid is as has been stated; it will go in reverse but has no forward drive. Leave a while and it will go forward. Drive around all day in 3rd but can stall if put in "A".
Don't get the idea that D3 is the fluid of the devil, as some boxes have it specified and in those cases it's the only fluid to use.
As an example, I recently serviced a BX auto that had been topped up with D3 but fortunately, this womans mechanic is a shonk and he didn't put as much in as he charged her for. I did a change to the specified fluid and it now changes so sweetly she can't tell a gear change from the air/con cutting in.
This incorrect fluid business is also not confined to just Cits and Pugs but to other brands too including many not fitted with ZF transmissions.
Remember the same ZF boxes fitted to French cars are the same as the ones fitted to Mercs, Beemers, Saabs and several other prestige cars and none of them have problems we sometimes see with French cars. Why not? Ask their mechanics and they'll tell you "because we use the fluid recommended by the manufacturer" so therein lies the devil in the detail.

Alan S

rabenson · Post by **rabenson** » 07 Mar 2007, 08:40

When I bought my current xsara I was interested in getting one with the HDI engine and automatic gearbox but came across rumours that there were many problems with this combination on this car (see honestjohn below:)

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/index.php?u ... /index.htm

"Complaints about autobox electronic actuation faults on both 1.6 auto and HDI 110 auto which Citroen dealers are unable to cure."

I don't know if this applies across the range but it was enough to persuade me against an autobox on my car.

It may be that this has since been sorted but it's always better to be aware of potential problems...

Ron

suzie · Post by **suzie** » 07 Mar 2007, 18:39

thanks everyone for the advice,we looked at a peugeot 406 today and it was lovely,but unfortunately manual.does anyone have experience of these in auto,don't really mind petrol or diesel.was considering a c5,but after reading this forum they seem pretty unreliable.thanks again for your help.

bencowell · Post by **bencowell** » 10 Mar 2007, 08:17

The C5 and same ages 406 use the same engines and gearboxes. The main difference is that the C5 uses the chassis of the 407 and has citroen suspension.

I'd get the C5 over the 406 - more modern interior, hatchback and softer ride.

Ben

f00lzz · Post by **f00lzz** » 10 Mar 2007, 08:45

suzie wrote:thanks everyone for the advice,we looked at a peugeot 406 today and it was lovely,but unfortunately manual.does anyone have experience of these in auto,don't really mind petrol or diesel.was considering a c5,but after reading this forum they seem pretty unreliable.thanks again for your help.

My choice (impossible I know) would be a 407 body with all C5 mechanicals..

DickieG · Post by **DickieG** » 10 Mar 2007, 11:27

On the subject of unreliable autoboxes a good friend of mine's ZX 1.9D Auto is now up to 230,000 miles and running perfectly OK having never changed the fluid, so to some extent its the luck of the draw.

micitroen · Post by **micitroen** » 11 Mar 2007, 22:58

Mine is a 1.9 tzd (non turbo) with 220 kms on the clock never been played with and is fine.....speak as you find....

UFO · Post by **UFO** » 12 Mar 2007, 10:44

The only diesel C5s available in Australia are automatics. Yes Aussie drivers can be a lazy mob, but hey, most of the cars are driven in city traffic. We also do not have the apparent tax slugs that you guys have with auto boxes.

AFAIK, everyone who has a diesel C5 loves it. The engine and gearbox go very well together. There are quite a few keen to get their hands on the new twin turbo 6 speed auto.

Combine diesel torque with auto gearbox and cruise control and you have a very good motorway cruiser while also being easy to punt around town.