Xantia blower motors

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

MalcolmBrown
Posts: 12
Joined: 13 Jul 2013, 16:23

Re: Xantia blower motors

Post by MalcolmBrown » 20 Oct 2017, 18:21

I have this problem. Have bought a new fusebox from ebay as blowers intermittent due to often only ~ 5volts getting to the relay switching but full 12volts at fuse number 5 (the ignition switched supply).
I can't figure out how to unclip the fusebox, have removed the cover panel and it looks like it should lift out as you describe.
Is the red tag at the top a tool to help get it unclipped??
0

soufle
Posts: 17
Joined: 02 Aug 2015, 00:09

Re: Xantia blower motors

Post by soufle » 12 Nov 2017, 01:21

supplied official mod for Xantia series 1 wonky blower mod from a friendly user of Aussie Frogs. Hopefully this will help any future owners who encounter this sordid travesty if any still exist without the repair!
Attachments
F317C27D-F2F3-42B4-A8EE-64EA6DA52AD2.jpeg
343870E8-0B6E-4387-B231-0248AC04A1A8.jpeg
0

Rhothgar
Posts: 898
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 9

Re: Xantia blower motors

Post by Rhothgar » 17 Nov 2017, 00:22

How timely soufle?

I just logged on tonight because I have been out in the car and the screen was horrendously condensated.

Funny how it was exactly a year ago to the day that CitroJim responded with his diagnostics link and some pictures.

I think together with your latest addition that I might attempt this repair tomorrow before it's too late!!!

The question now is if the blower no longer operates will I need a new ignition cylinder too?
0

User avatar
xantia_v6
Forum Admin Team
Posts: 5404
Joined: 09 Nov 2005, 23:03
x 189

Re: Xantia blower motors

Post by xantia_v6 » 17 Nov 2017, 02:48

Often the switch contacts will still operate a relay, even if they won't carry enough current for the fan.

Otherwise you can drive the relay from the ignition contacts.
0

User avatar
Mandrake
Posts: 7608
Joined: 10 Apr 2005, 17:23
x 157

Re: Xantia blower motors

Post by Mandrake » 17 Nov 2017, 07:43

xantia_v6 wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 02:48
Often the switch contacts will still operate a relay, even if they won't carry enough current for the fan.

Otherwise you can drive the relay from the ignition contacts.

That's exactly what I did when I did this modification on my first Xantia. Instead of trying to drive the relay coil from the contact that is nearly burnt out, I got the relay coil supply from the ignition output from the switch. (One of the other two big plugs)

The only difference between them from the point of view of driving a relay is that the ignition supply is also on in the starter position while the acc contact that originally runs the fan is not. However if you have the automatic "climate control" version of the heater controls, as I did (you have a temperature scale instead of just a blue to red scale) then the climate ECU will not allow the blower fan to run until the engine is started and running normally anyway. (It monitors the output of the alternator and waits until a few seconds after it is charging before turning on the blower) So there is no risk of the fan trying to run while starting the engine.

However if you have the older manual controls I'm not sure this applies - I have never come into contact with a non climate Xantia. The manual version of the heater controls might conceivably rely entirely on the interlocking of the acc switch contact to prevent the fan running in starter mode, in which case it would allow the fan to run with the key on but engine not running. Does anyone know ?
0

Rhothgar
Posts: 898
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 9

Re: Xantia blower motors

Post by Rhothgar » 17 Nov 2017, 10:48

xantia_v6 wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 02:48
Often the switch contacts will still operate a relay, even if they won't carry enough current for the fan.

Otherwise you can drive the relay from the ignition contacts.


This may be an issue for me then. It clearly became intermittent over a year ago as I can see from my posts. I got it operating again earlier this year by waggling the ignition key many, many times.

That method no longer works.
0

Rhothgar
Posts: 898
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 9

Re: Xantia blower motors

Post by Rhothgar » 17 Nov 2017, 10:54

Mandrake wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 07:43
That's exactly what I did when I did this modification on my first Xantia. Instead of trying to drive the relay coil from the contact that is nearly burnt out, I got the relay coil supply from the ignition output from the switch. (One of the other two big plugs)

The only difference between them from the point of view of driving a relay is that the ignition supply is also on in the starter position while the acc contact that originally runs the fan is not. However if you have the automatic "climate control" version of the heater controls, as I did (you have a temperature scale instead of just a blue to red scale) then the climate ECU will not allow the blower fan to run until the engine is started and running normally anyway. (It monitors the output of the alternator and waits until a few seconds after it is charging before turning on the blower) So there is no risk of the fan trying to run while starting the engine.

However if you have the older manual controls I'm not sure this applies - I have never come into contact with a non climate Xantia. The manual version of the heater controls might conceivably rely entirely on the interlocking of the acc switch contact to prevent the fan running in starter mode, in which case it would allow the fan to run with the key on but engine not running. Does anyone know ?


So being a complete electrical dunce, this means because I can no longer get it to work using the key waggling technique that the contacts are completely burnt out and I shouldn't waste my time breaking into the wiring for the ignition switch?

This will surprise you but I do actually own a ACC Xantia (Mine has the blue to red scale) so one of the rare ones you have never seen by the sounds of it. It has a sunroof!

So where do I need to break into for the power?

I am going to try some waggling on the blower motor 4 pin connector in the passenger footwell first (which I read on another topic last night).
0

Rhothgar
Posts: 898
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 9

Re: Xantia blower motors

Post by Rhothgar » 17 Nov 2017, 12:52

Already demoralised looking at this.

Sometimes too much information can be a bad thing or at least understanding the validity of the information.

I have looked at several diagrams on the forum. Of course, I do not know whether they are for Climate control vehicles or not.

The photo of the connector to the blower motor I saw last night that it said wiggle was brown. Mine appears to be green with 5 wires. Grey Blue Mauve Another colour and what looks likek grey or white.

SO I took out Fuse 20 and measured. There are no volts either side. So I plucked out Fuse 21, that has 12 on one side and zero on the other when key is turned to Accessories. Can the fusebox easily be dropped so you can test on the rear? My eyesight is too poor in cramped conditions and low light levels do not help.

I don't know what I am doing.

I have all the workshop manuals somewhere. Of course, I cannot find them!!!!

Soufle's post above refers to a blocked pollen filter in the photos. Am I right in saying that this would only be on a Xantia S1 with climate? If so, presumably the diagram is then not valid for my car.
0

Rhothgar
Posts: 898
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 9

Re: Xantia blower motors

Post by Rhothgar » 17 Nov 2017, 17:06

What a frustrating waste of a day! Apologies in advance for the numerous posts.

In the last 3.5 hours, I have managed to find my workshop manuals which is brilliant because I can try and break my understanding down to a component level.

In the last hour and half, I have managed to test ONE electrical connection!

8040 Air blower speed control - Valeo has a black 6 channel connector with 5 wires coming off loom 56 CLIM, coloured as follows:

1:K20 Red
2:8022 Yellow
4:8024 Blue
5:8023 White
6:Grey 8021

As the blower is not working, it seemed logical to test this connector first as that is where the problem lies.

I get 0.20 Volts max but this can vary at Connector 1:K20 Red.

I managed to unclip the Fusebox BF00 and could not pull it out enough to test the feed the connectors behind.

Looking at the workshop manual below.

CA00 Ignition Switch, power comes in from BB00 Battery via BB10 Supply Box (Engine Bay) Permanent black (NR) feed to Connector Socket 1 of a 2 channel Brown (2V MR) connector. This does not appear to be linked to a Fuse in BB10. Once the ignition is switched to M position that feeds battery voltage to Connector Socket 2 of the same 2 channel Brown (2V MR). This Connector socket is located somewhere under the steering column shrouds high up.

This feeds via a 2V MR connector on the back of the Fusebox BF00 which I cannot readily access. So there should be a 12V feed to one side of the fuse F20 (removed) when the ignition is on.

However, definitely appears to be NO voltage to this fuse! I probably need to stick a male spade connector into it so I can test properly rather than trying to force the DMM probe into the female connector.

Would I be right in thinking that if there is 100% ZERO voltage at this fuse that either the ignition switch is totally burnt out on its M position (if this is the case, how could the lights work and everything else apart from the blower and HRW?) or could it be the wire between the ignition and F20 is burnt out?

Thoughts please.

Next! Looking at Soufle image above, it looks like I would need to splice into a wire from BMF1m (Max - Fuse Box). Is BMF1 the same as BB10 because I cannot find the location of BMF1 in the workshop manual despite it being made mention of.
0

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 41569
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 945

Re: Xantia blower motors

Post by CitroJim » 17 Nov 2017, 18:17

Roger, somewhere on this forum is some really good pictures of how to splice the relay into the loom right at the ignition switch... That makes it a lot easier to do...

I'm sure you'll find all you need to know buried in this thread and its links somewhere...

viewtopic.php?f=19&t=24786

Else that, come down and see me tomorrow afternoon ;)
1

Rhothgar
Posts: 898
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 9

Re: Xantia blower motors

Post by Rhothgar » 17 Nov 2017, 18:21

Got to say I am thoroughly pissed off now.

The stupid bloody cowling has two screws on the underside and an invisible one which is impossible to get to so I have now broken the cowling.

Apologies for the language but it is mild considering how I am now feeling.

Coupled with this, the battery has now mysteriously drained (though I didn't expect that to last the winter) and the alarm keeps going off when I try to start the car.

With the cowlings off, it hopefully may get broken in to and stolen tonight. Failing that it's going to the scrapyard tomorrow. Damn shame for a genuine two owner car with only 78000 miles on.
0

User avatar
Stickyfinger
Donor 2016
Posts: 9706
Joined: 28 Mar 2013, 22:05
x 575

Re: Xantia blower motors

Post by Stickyfinger » 17 Nov 2017, 19:25

Advice, take Jim up on his offer.........if nothing else you will get a nice flapJack
0

User avatar
CitroJim
A very naughty boy
Posts: 41569
Joined: 30 Apr 2005, 23:33
x 945

Re: Xantia blower motors

Post by CitroJim » 17 Nov 2017, 19:28

Stickyfinger wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 19:25
Advice, take Jim up on his offer.........if nothing else you will get a nice flapJack



He has, Roger and I have just enjoyed a great phone call, mainly discussing a non-automotive common interest :)

Flapjacks of the Vegan variety are definitely on offer ;)
1

Hell Razor5543
NOT Alistair or Simon
Posts: 8180
Joined: 01 Apr 2012, 09:47
x 450

Re: Xantia blower motors

Post by Hell Razor5543 » 17 Nov 2017, 19:29

Definitely take up Jims' offer. If nothing else you will get nice food (and Jim will get to investigate an automotive problem, which he enjoys doing).
1

Rhothgar
Posts: 898
Joined: 22 Nov 2004, 01:21
x 9

Re: Xantia blower motors

Post by Rhothgar » 17 Nov 2017, 20:18

Stickyfinger wrote:
17 Nov 2017, 19:25
Advice, take Jim up on his offer.........if nothing else you will get a nice flapJack


How funny is that? I've just scoffed a flapjack!

Jim's and my post crossed. Got my knickers in a twist over it and breaking the cowling was the last straw!
1