2.1 Turbo D engines

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 10 Jan 2007, 16:10

Are the 2.1TD 12 valve motors as reliable as the old 1.9 XUDs? I have heard of the odd one letting go big-time, and am wondering if there is any founadation in this?

From what I can glean, the HDi lumps (other than ancilliaries!) are bullet proof.

Opinions appreciated.

Kowalski · Post by **Kowalski** » 10 Jan 2007, 16:53

The 2.1 12 valve motors are closely related to the 8v 1.9s and are just about as bulletproof. They don't suffer from the overheating and subsequent head gasket problems that the 1.9s can have, so they're probably much more long lasting.

The downside is marginally worse fuel economy than the 1.9 (people will argue this one, but I'm of the opinion that a 2.1 Xantia is less economical than a 1.9) and the fact that it is physically larger than the 1.9 around the top end, so that makes space tighter in the engine bay and they can be a bit of a pig to work on (although the 1.9 is hardly easy because its a tight fit in the Xantia too).

BonceChops · Post by **BonceChops** » 10 Jan 2007, 17:21

The 2.1 also has a very poor Lucas EPIC electronic injection pump fitted on all Xantias, 406's and later XM's. This pump is according to my local Lucas agent a load of rubbish and proved to be very unreliable in his opinion.

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 10 Jan 2007, 18:39

The 2.1 12 valve motors are closely related to the 8v 1.9s and are just about as bulletproof. They don't suffer from the overheating and subsequent head gasket problems that the 1.9s can have, so they're probably much more long lasting
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My research tells me that the gasket/head problems are down to electrolytic corrosion in nearly all cases - not the head overheating first... inhibitors/coolant changes might well eliminate these if carried out in earlier life. Mercs, Audi/VAG all get these extended mileage head corrosion problems it seems. Well serviced XUDs regularly see 500K miles.

My XM Hback's gasket let go at 170K - not any better than a 1.9XUD.

The XM Estate had had the head re-surfaced at 130K before I bought it, but the Lucas (read Crappite) pump ran away at 170K, so I threw that one away as well.

Loved the cars though - bloody marvellous.

rory_perrett · Post by **rory_perrett** » 10 Jan 2007, 18:44

I echo most of what's been said. Under some conditions our 2.1td Xantia is more economical than our 1.9td was, ie on a run at around 60mph. I suspect driven like for like there's not much in it but then what's the point of having the extra power if you don't use it. Currently we are at 197k miles. The problem that occured at 190k was somewhat self inflicted and I suspect that if that had not happened I would be reporting 197k reliable miles.

Bit tight on space for some jobs and I suspect that the throttle position sensor is suffering some wear but public thanks to Johnno for what appears to be a (rather unorthodox) fix for that one.

I much prefer the 2.1 over the 1.9. Not in a position to comment about the HDi, not got experience of a HDi in a Xantia. Our Xsara with a 90bhp unit shows promise but I suspect it would have to be the 110bhp unit if it was in a Xantia.

Regards

Rory

steelcityuk · Post by **steelcityuk** » 10 Jan 2007, 19:06

Following on from Rorys post, I would say that the performance of my Xantia 110 is about the same as my old 405TD but they are different to drive. I suspect this is down to higher weight of the Xantia and taller gearing. A 110 HDi in a 405 would be nice.

Steve.

deian · Post by **deian** » 10 Jan 2007, 22:39

i got the a 2.1 xantia, and can honestly say it's a fantastic engine, the best i've ever had, still drives like new now.... at 201k miles!!

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 11 Jan 2007, 06:46

The engine does get a pretty easy time in a Xantia compared with an XM it must be said. However, in an auto XM it gives a fairly bright pace notwithstanding the weight, and fuel consuption is outstanding given this - often up around 40+mpg.

One aspect that appears at higher mileage is clacky tappets as the self adjusters get leaky.

i got the a 2.1 xantia, and can honestly say it's a fantastic engine, the best i've ever had, still drives like new now.... at 201k miles!!

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 11 Jan 2007, 06:58

But not as nice as a 406! Nicest 406 is 110 HDi - I don't currently own one (have had 3), but this vehicle is one of the nicest overall I can recall after 50 years of bikes and cars - some pretty exotic - exotic does not mean nice...

I currently own an HDI Xantia with 200K. It is my favourite - based on a 406 floorpan with better suspension - but wonder at when the Inj/ECU related bugs are going to appear.

Following on from Rorys post, I would say that the performance of my Xantia 110 is about the same as my old 405TD but they are different to drive. I suspect this is down to higher weight of the Xantia and taller gearing. A 110 HDi in a 405 would be nice.

KP · Post by KP » 11 Jan 2007, 08:14

The 2.1td is the engine choice i would have again and while there are reported problems with the pump we intend to keep ours for a while yet. thus far we have had a newer turbo fitted when we bought and since then i have gathered,
New Clutch
Used turbo,
Used IP,
Used injectors(all recently cleaned and tested)
all done about 70k off a written off rear ended xantia
And a brand new set of pistons with rings and pins

All the above cost me about £100 and well worth it considering our car has now done 170k and is still going well

Its certainly cheaper on the juice on a motorway cruise at say 80ish and then a bit

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 11 Jan 2007, 08:24

Why pistons/rings? These normally do several times this mileage. Are you saying that all this stuff only cost £100 incl a new clutch?

The 2.1td is the engine choice i would have again and while there are reported problems with the pump we intend to keep ours for a while yet. thus far we have had a newer turbo fitted when we bought and since then i have gathered,
New Clutch
Used turbo,
Used IP,
Used injectors(all recently cleaned and tested)
all done about 70k off a written off rear ended xantia
And a brand new set of pistons with rings and pins

KP · Post by KP » 11 Jan 2007, 08:36

Clutch was £35
Turbo, pump injectors was £50
Pistons were £25

Total £110.

Idea is at some point to get the pistons balanced to the same wieght, and then also do the conrods when they come out.
Should help a little more with the top end of the rev range and make the engine a bit easier pulling across the rev range and make sure things arent stressed as much due to inbalance. i know it probably wont help much but may as well do it.

And then at some point just get the headgasket done as well before it does go, and do the pistons the same time as shouldnt cost too much more

And in the mean time see about getting the IP sorted to take veggie oil and also a recon on the used turbo i have to get a better journal bearing in place as well.

Then the last thing will be hunting down a nice leather interior for it when money permits

steelcityuk · Post by **steelcityuk** » 11 Jan 2007, 10:03

I really liked my 405. It was a GTX estate so looked good (IMHO) and with a HDi in a lighter shell it would be a good match for it's handling.

Steve.

KP · Post by KP » 11 Jan 2007, 10:09

True, But a HDI exec has hydractive II so should be better round the corners

lolingram · Post by **lolingram** » 11 Jan 2007, 11:06

I now see that this is a labour of love - and why not? I would look at the headjoint as a matter of priority - the rest is icing on the cake.

Nice car - good luck!

Clutch was £35
Turbo, pump injectors was £50
Pistons were £25

Total £110.

Idea is at some point to get the pistons balanced to the same wieght, and then also do the conrods when they come out.