XM vs. Xantia

deian · Post by **deian** » 09 Jan 2007, 10:30

Morning,

andrew: i am buying the kit extra of course, what i mean was it's included in the car overall by paying a bit more

kp: i know my car is quite rare too, as much as i like it, never been a big fan of diesels, i like to wind an engine up to more than you can on a diesel, i am a petrolhead at heart, and always loved 6 cyl engines, so you can take a cat out on a lpg converted car? even after K reg (where they were legally needed), and even if it's dual fuel? or just lpg? if i can take it then i will! he he, it'l be about as far i will go with boyracer mods, an XM isn't a saxo... it'll eat them for breakfast

john: i know 'citroenxm' has converted two XM's v6's to lpg, i've been in both cars and it works well, he took the kit off a 12valve and plonked it straight onto a 24valve one with no worries, he did the hard work, and got a certified engineer to finish the fiddly bits off for a reasonable cost. So it shouldn't be too hard on a xantia V6, (i'm thinking....) the v6 in a xantia is a smaller 60deg engine comapred to the 90deg engine in early xm's.

thanks for sharing your views about the lpg kit and how to go about it, it's helped a lot, i know of two local guys, well three really, one i am exchanging emails with, the other is a one person garage, and i've heard good things about him, will go see him this week.

you know the xantia is for sale don't you?

Thanks
Deian

KP · Post by KP » 09 Jan 2007, 10:50

To be honest i have driven both and i prefer our mk1 sx 2.1td enough taht we have a spare pump, turbo, injectors, and brand new clutch and set of pistons for it as well

Any LPG car can have the CAT removed legally as even with it removed its still better for the enviroment than a CAT'd petrol car

like anything if its setup on a rolling road and then while out on the mvoe you will easily see 210bhp if not more like 230 from a decatt'd v6 on lpg

KP · Post by KP » 09 Jan 2007, 11:00

PS i have seen the FOR SALE sign

TBH i dont think we could ever part with our 2.1 and its the one thing temptnig me into selling my coupe as i could use an elsbett kit to allow it to run on veg or get the pump re-worked to support veg and then have a nice torquey beast with super cheap running and a light tuning kit should see it pushing out more like 130bhp and a fair bit more torque as our current one picks up at a nice 1500rpm and sails on across the rev range and does feel more like a grunty petrol car than a diesel one

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 09 Jan 2007, 19:57

Hi all

I am currently running my 1990 24v V6 on GAS....

As for gas gusseling... I get 320 miles on about 31 quid of gas @ 40p a litre

According to out local LPG outlet, Yes the Brown man has put a penny a litre on LPG but thats it for the next 3 years, then he shall review again then..

Not sure about getting MORE bhp from LPG, I beleve its actually a 5 - 10% LOSS in power according to Car Mechanics magazines and out local LPG man - how ever a DE - CAT sounds good to me when they finally rot on mine....

I am a DERV driver by heart, but having the ability to have 6 cyls and DERV type economy just makes me smile sooooo much

Regards
citroenxm

PS: Andmcit

Thats CX GTi T2 is AWESOME!!! I lovve the look and the BEST Colour too

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 09 Jan 2007, 21:13

An interesting subject this one, and one that's been kicked about by
myself and a good pal of mine and fellow Citroen sufferer for a while
now - he now runs a 4.6 HSE Range Rover P38 on gas - the car actually
gives real world economy equivalent to 30+ mpg in it's running costs
instead of the usual 16mpg at 90p a litre with unleaded...

He's been trained as an LPG fitter and was in the process of fitting a Kit
to his 12v V6 Xm whilst running it a daily driver - he was not far off
actually plumbing in a donut tank when the car took an "off" into the
scenery on an icy morning on the way to work...

The car 'landed' perfectly and all was well though it didn't have enough
grip to drive back out of the moorland ditch so he walked back to his
house to call for help. As no tractor driver's were available and not wanting
to create a fuss he called the AA - they nominated a local private cowboy
outfit that didn't collect him, the keyholder FIRST, but on the way they
passed the car which was locked and decided to drag the now FLAT car
over the surrounding scenery. It comprehensively smashed the sump/
gearbox/chassis and fuel & hydraulic pipework/height corrector linkages
etc etc totally writing the car off.

The parts are now stored for when he feels the inclination to LPG convert
his 24v S1 V6!! What's slowing him down is his objective now to run in
extra injectors rather than the simpler feed into the air induction and fool
the injection into thinking the petrol injectors are still working. He knows
his stuff and is nearing completion of a complete new build of his own house.

When he gets round to it, he wants to fit DIRAVI steering with a CX
rack adapted to fit his 24v V6...

When he's finished I want to copy his rack/fitment to convert mine too as he
has two LHD DIRAVI racks and there's the donor LHD V6 I bought...

What I recall a good few years around the birth of 'new Labour' was the
inexorable increase in diesel fuel prices after we'd all been told for years
it was the fuel of the future - remember all the hoohah about nasty killer
diesel engines and their invisible PM10's that will give babies pointy
heads and that it'll need to be priced/taxed accordingly...

Call me a cynic if you like, but the larger the take up of LPG conversions
under the green umbrella the less Labour will resist stitching it's users up
with chunky tax increases no matter what they say this particular minute
- let's face it, the track record for doing this is all around us...

Come on, there's hardly a coherent approach/policy on these issues, it's
grab, grab, grab all ad-hoc and the good'ol motorist always cops it big-time!

Yes, great! I'd like my 24v V6 S1 Xm to return THE EQUIVALENT of 40mpg
too, even with the 5-10% drop in performance and realtime consumption
- but when the advantage of the actual fuel cost is diminished I'd rather not
go to the hassle - certainly where I run a diesel Xantia estate as a daily driver
[to receive the abuse most moron drivers throw at me] leaving my Cx GTi
Turbo2, a 1974 GS1222, an Xm 2.0i CT turbo, not to mention a few others
which can all have their turn on the weekend/'I want to feel better days'!!

One dodge I can suggest is the highly theoretical use of a hand priming
pump and the regular delivery of house use LPG BIG red bottles delivered
to the shed beside the garage; use your imagination

I may yet go to the 'bother' and expense of LPG conversion myself,
IF I just knew which car I wanted to convert first!

Sadly a CX conversion isn't really practical as I don't want to fill the boot with
a torpedo...

Andrew

citroenxm · Post by **citroenxm** » 09 Jan 2007, 21:44

Andrew

Yes i know what the BROWN man did with DERV, and YES I agree he will do it with LPG, that is why I AM enjoying V6 24v driving while i can still afford it on LPG....

It will then be back to DERV when LPG is not cost efficient. I've worked out that it can goto a max of 45p litre before its no cheaper (at least in V6 form) to run, and then I'll either goto 4cylnder turbo, or back to DERV.

DERV my obvious choice however...

Regards
citroenxm

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 09 Jan 2007, 22:54

Yes OK, but AREN'T diesels such hard work!?

Give me a fast revving smooth chain driven petrol engine any day
- it'll easily outlast an equivalent age DERV one.

With word association, when I hear the word 'diesel' instinctively
the words "HEAD GASKET" pop into my mind...

Andrew

deian · Post by **deian** » 09 Jan 2007, 22:54

i must admit, i'm a petrol head by heart, although the xantia had changed things for me, still can't beat the tone of a V6 in an odd if some what rare citroen, i'm sure people will be asking 'what the f was that when it comes to overtaking'... i want some fun motoring while i have the energy for it, and also while it's affordable to run, can we get back to the subject in question.... XM vs' Xantia?

Thanks

deian · Post by **deian** » 09 Jan 2007, 22:58

ok one last comment from me now, my first head gasket went on a pug 106 DERV, of course the xantia is lasting well (if it's on it's first head gasket), derv is a tad more expensive than petrol, but a bit more economical, so to me they are the same, so petrol wins, but something in the back of my mind wants to give the xantia a gold medal! faultless in everyway.... still give me a 6 cyl and i will smile driving it

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 09 Jan 2007, 23:01

I thought you'd decided a long time ago - apparently a 24v V6 Xm
has been taken off the 'for sale' listing...

Anyway FWIW, XM. Yes definitely!!
You knew I was going to say that anyway!

Better still:

XM 24V V6

er

CX GTi T2

um

Xantia VSX 1.9 TD ESTATE

oh, I know

GS 1222

mmmm

XM 2.0i CT Turbo...

YES XM!!

No CX,

oh bother...

I'll have one of each then!!

8)

Andrew

andmcit · Post by **andmcit** » 09 Jan 2007, 23:13

Deian, you've got a very nice desirable Xantia. It's the all bells&whistles
model being an Exclusive and it's the best engine to have in one AT THE
MOMENT. Yes it would be fantastic to have an autadaptive 24v V6 Xantia,
and a 24V V6 Xm...

chances are you'll manage to pick these up for even less dosh in the
coming months as more and more folk are taxed off the road! Therefore,
I can completely understand your interest in LPG. Hope it all works out for
you. If I were in your position I'd try and keep your 2.1 TD Xantia if I
could. An Xm as a SINGLE car daily driver will manage to test anyone's
enthusiasm...

That said, I wouldn't have it any other way - the 'other ways' are just to
damned boring! The only issue that's a constant thorn in Xm ownership is
the heater matrix - that's because I always seem to be changing one, but
I am always meddling with a different Xm!!

Andrew

deian · Post by **deian** » 09 Jan 2007, 23:35

i've got a pug 106d in the drive too, i may put a new head gasket and radiator on that, and have it as a back up car,

i'm sure there will be a time when the xm may play games on me, in which case she will be given time to sort herself out on the drive (as they do so i've heard),

the pug can be a handy car for mum to take the dog out in as my sister always takes the fiesta she once had, tax is cheap for a 1.4d, and there are deals with insurance for a second car, i think they offered me a silly deal last time i checked!

i totally loathe the pug though, my little nephew's tricycle goes faster backwards... with me on it! it'd still get me to work when the xm sulks though

still, paul drives an xm daily and look at him, he's the happiest man i know, albeit a bit insane too, his enthusiasm towards the xm is something to behold! long live paul

DoubleChevron · Post by **DoubleChevron** » 10 Jan 2007, 02:29

andmcit wrote:Mind, stirring things up here I know, whilst for me an XM 24v V6 is better
than a Xantia, a Cx GTi Turbo2 eclipses both - try one - you may like it!

Andrew

A CX ......... I wouldn't be caught dead driving a car as ugly and slow as that one

Gimme a Xantia slugomatic anyday

seeya,
Shane L.

KP · Post by KP » 10 Jan 2007, 08:51

If you want something a bit cheaper to run(according to citroen!) and a bit nippier i have an AX 1.5d for sale

To be honest LPG performance depends on the installer but i think the bits i have had done to my car help it make more use of the higher octane rating than petrol and thus the difference in power is minimal, especially after you remove the cats your back upto at least the power of petrol

The installer that did mine had an Activa that was running near 200bhp without much done to it and it was the courtesy car....

deian · Post by **deian** » 10 Jan 2007, 10:21

i'd prefer an AX though, still, that would mean fixing up my pug and selling that one at a loss, at least if i fix it on the cheap good enough to pass the mot and good enough to run i will be with something, but say your ax is dirt cheap i may scrap the pug