Heating in TD LX estate

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whitecrook2
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Heating in TD LX estate

Post by whitecrook2 »

Hi all

I've searched through the forum, but nothing seems to match this problem so let me describe:

in my 1.9td LX the heating system (it's red/blue, 4 fan settings, not temp controlled) doesn't get as hot as it used to. Could this be heater matrix? There's no odd smells, nor wet passenger footwell.

The fan seems to throw out a lot of air each setting works, + the face, feet, screen settings all work, the air comes through not as cold, or hot, but just 'mild'

I've noticed in the past sometimes when getting out the car there is a hell of a lot of heat coming from underneath the car - could there be a air duct channeling air outside, instead of into the cabin?

Could it be the actual temperature switch - how would I test this? I tried to remove the unit with all the switches but would only back out about 1 inch - didn't want to pull it incase I break something..


I've looked in the BOL but the pictures nor decriptions seem to make any sense to me. If II knew what check to make I could proceed but I hope I have described the symptons well enough

Any ideas

Thanks for reading
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Post by Stewart(oily) »

You dont mention how your engine temp gauge looks, my Xantia appeared to be reaching normal operating temperature throughout the warm weather but with the onset of the cold weather I realised that the thermostat was not behaving as it should,the engine was struggling to get above 60 degrees when being gently driven, I replaced the thermostat and presto, demisting and a warm cabin, I was so chuffed I put a new one in the BX too.
Stewart
BXs since 1993 built 1.9 TZD turbo, got a S2 Xantia estate, brilliant car! 2013, Xantia HDI LX 110 2000 new car with 122,000, l C2 HDI Rusty rocket, C3 Picasso HDI new to me.
whitecrook2
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Post by whitecrook2 »

Thanks for the reply.

Well the engine temp is the same as it always has been since I got the car2 years ago, the needle always settles at 9 o'clock position which is.....just about a needle width or 2 above 80 deg C.

Would that mean the thermostat is working?
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Stewart(oily)
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Post by Stewart(oily) »

Mine has numerals calibrated on the gauge, it appeared that the stat was working but things got lots better when I replaced the stat, its a ten minute job and costs around a tenner, slow warm up is one symptom, my engine is now at around 80 degrees within three miles of a cold start.
Stewart
BXs since 1993 built 1.9 TZD turbo, got a S2 Xantia estate, brilliant car! 2013, Xantia HDI LX 110 2000 new car with 122,000, l C2 HDI Rusty rocket, C3 Picasso HDI new to me.
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Post by jeremy »

A rough test of the thermostat can be made by feeling the top hose (from the thermostat to the radiator) as the engine warms up. You should be able to feel the temp increase rapidly as it opens.

I think the Xantia heater is an air blender rather than being controlled by a water valve (ZX is - BX has a water valve) - in which case hot air is simply divered into and away from the car by flaps. Do all the controls seem to be working properly. fan speed one may operate a flap shutting off the air supply or something. Both mine (BX and ZX) have this function.

Do the heater hoses get hot - if not (and I mean both) it could be a sign of a clogged matrix.
jeremy
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Post by Peter.N. »

If you can rule out the thermostat, the problem is probably either that the hot air flap is not fully opening or the heater matrix is partially blocked. You can check this by feeling the heater pipes with the heater on and engine running. The feed pipe , usually the bottom one should be hot, if the other pipe is nearly as hot then the problem will be with the flap, if the output pipe is much cooler then it will be the matrix.

If it is the matrix, you should be able to flush it out by connecting a hosepipe to each end in turn untill the water runs clear. It could also be that there is air in the matrix which only usually happens if the hoses are connected the wrong way round.
whitecrook2
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Post by whitecrook2 »

Thanks for these replies, looks good, but please excuse my ignorance as I don't know what pipes I should be checking. There's a lot of pipes in a td engine bay.

As you stand in front of the car:

The pipe from the coolant tank to the top right of the radiator, should this be getting hot?

Where are 'both' the pipes? Going by the haynes it mentions 2 pipes in the bulkhead, are these the pipes right at the back just to the left of centre?

Opening my coolant tank theres a brown residue in there - is that normal?

The reply about getting operating temparture within 3 miles looks promising, because at the moment it takes ages for the engine to heat up unless i rag the nuts off it.

Where is the thermostat? I try to stick up some pictures shortly if it helps.


Imagehttp://img83.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4280vb2.jpg
Imagehttp://img227.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4281jq7.jpg

Image


Thanks all

<edit to add pics>
--
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x 31

Post by Stewart(oily) »

The thermostat is in the engine end of the top hose , If you follow the top hose from the top of the radiator back to the engine you will see a black plastic moulding held on by three bolts (10mm from memory), the thermostat lives behind there and will pull out by hand once the three bolts are removed, the new thermostat should come with a rubber ring to fit around its circumference, replace it, refit the housing, top up the coolant and bleed as per haynes book of lies, warmth should follow soon :)
Stewart
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Post by jeremy »

Thermostst is under the housing with the 2 blue sensors on it. Follow thick curly hose from radiator back to engine.

Heater hoses probably pass through the bulkhead in a pair - have a good look down the back of an engine.
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x 31

Post by Stewart(oily) »

Watch out for the clip off heater pipes, the plastic tends to degrade over time becoming very fragile, its impossible for these to be connected wrongly anyway as they are part of the heater pipe loom which is all one piece and costs a packet.
Stewart
BXs since 1993 built 1.9 TZD turbo, got a S2 Xantia estate, brilliant car! 2013, Xantia HDI LX 110 2000 new car with 122,000, l C2 HDI Rusty rocket, C3 Picasso HDI new to me.
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Post by dan_the_v8man »

how does a thermostat fault make the engine run cool, as mine will quite run all day and not get up to 80 so im assuming i need to replace the thermostat?
Dec 94 Xantia LX 1.9 TD 116k - My first car :D
SteveG

Post by SteveG »

dan_the_v8man wrote:how does a thermostat fault make the engine run cool, as mine will quite run all day and not get up to 80 so im assuming i need to replace the thermostat?
The purpose of the thermostat is to control the flow of the cooling fluid so that you a) get up to operating temperature quickly, and b) maintain an even(ish) operating temperature.

When the engine is cold the thermostat is closed, which prevents the coolant from flowing through the radiator. This causes the coolant to heat up quickly. Once the coolant reaches something close to normal operating temperature the thermostat begins to open allowing coolant to flow from the engine block through the radiator (where it is cooled by air flow) and back into the engine block again (where it is re-heated).

If your thermostat is stuck in the open position then coolant will flow through the radiator all the time making it difficult for it to reach operating temperature. One symptom of this failure is that the heater doesn't get very warm.

Conversely, a thermostat that is stuck closed will cause the coolant to heat up very quickly and then overheat; possibly causing serious damage to the engine in the process :cry:

HTH
whitecrook2
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Post by whitecrook2 »

OK. I have bought a new thermostat to fit at the weekend, but I see this will mean I may need to top up the coolant to replace any which is lost. (will it pour out when I open the thermostat housing?)

What coolant should I use?

The BOL (pg13) suggests 'a mixture of water and antifreeze' Searching this forum brings up Radicool, at 33% glycol, or something else with %50 glycol and distilled water.. And a few warnings about using the wrong coolant can cause all sorts of bother.. Mentions of Green coolant and Orange coolant as well.

Any hints great fully appreciated.

<edit>
Actually, it says ethylene glycol based antifreeze and water 28% mix for protectino down to -15 deg C. I guess I'll just pick a few litres of that up at the local motorfactors.
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Post by Clogzz »

In the 1996 Xantia, Citroën used an orange coolant called ‘Procor 3000’, which is 50% glycol, to go in as it is, no mixing down with water.
It comes in 5 litre containers, costing the equivalent of about £14 here.
Castrol ‘Radicool’ is green with 33% glycol, pre-mixed with clean water, no fiddling either.
According to Castrol, anything less than 33% glycol won’t protect the metals for the drain interval specified.
The factor’s 28% glycol coolant should do, providing that it’s replaced in time.
Might be better to use the glycol coolant rather than the new type, because that’s what was intended for the car back then.
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Post by RichardW »

"In the 1996 Xantia, Citroën used an orange coolant called ‘Procor 3000’"

Not sure that's the case in the UK..... Valeo will only warrant a new Xantia matrix if the official Citroen 'Antigel' is used (blue, glycol stuff). It's quite expensive though (but is available from GSF).

If you are going to be loosing part of the water, then it's probably best to drain the lot and refill with fresh coolant - it's probably due anyway. Distilled water is best if you are in a hard water area - I wouldn't worry too much if you are in a softwater area. Take heed of the instructions for bleeding the system in Haynes!

The matrix will probably start leaking anyway - new glycol has a way of finding weak points :roll:
Richard W
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