If the ABS is working correctly any sensor problem will show up as an error code and turn the thing off altogether.
Firstly is the light working correctly? It should come on on startup and stay on for a few seconds while the thing self tests - then go out. If it doesn't come on at all you have a problem (like someone's removed the bulb)
If it self tests correctly and stays out I'd suspect the ECU - and its probably worth getting it tested professionally - otherwise you'll replace the whole system and still have the fault.
May be worth finding someone with the code reader - or getting the whole thing tested by a specialist:
http://www.carelect.demon.co.uk/
http://www.bba-reman.com/
Xantia Brake problem
Moderator: RichardW
Many thanks again Jeremy.
The self test works properly, and the warning light doesn't come on at any time after that, nobody has removed the bulb, I've had the car from new. so I know that for sure.
I will check out your links.
Paul
The self test works properly, and the warning light doesn't come on at any time after that, nobody has removed the bulb, I've had the car from new. so I know that for sure.
I will check out your links.
Paul
Xantia gone, now got a
Renault Laguna 1.9 Dci Sport tourer
2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
Renault Laguna 1.9 Dci Sport tourer
2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
Yes, removing the ABS fuse (or unplugging the ABS ECU for that matter) will cause the ABS light to be on permanently any time the ignition key is turned on....
Regards,
Simon
Regards,
Simon
Simon
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
1997 Xantia S1 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive in Silex Grey
2016 Nissan Leaf Tekna 30kWh in White
2011 Peugeot Ion Full Electric in Silver
1977 G Special 1129cc LHD
1978 CX 2400
1997 Xantia S1 2.0i Auto VSX
1998 Xantia S2 3.0 V6 Auto Exclusive
Then it sounds as though the ECU is doing some of what it should do but if its operating in a non-skid situation then there's a problem.
Disconnecting bits will only cause it to shut down and so can't be used for test purposes. It works by counting pulses from the wheel sensors and as far as I know permanently monitors the brakes and the rest of the system until it becomes active when the brake pedal is pressed (brake light switch)
In its active mode it should do nothing unless the frequency recieved from one wheel drops in relation to others. There's a bit more to it than that - but basically I think its looking for a wheel lock situation - ie no signal from a sensor.
I suppose its possible that a dirty sensor ring is causing the problem but think its unlikely. As you are now well acquainted with the sensors and rings I would have thought you would have noticed any substantial build up of dirt or rust in that area.
ECU failure is common on Xantias but its confined to early and mid 90's ones - as I think the ECU was changed after that and before the HDi's were made.
Think you'll have to get it tested and as you will see from the link I posted - they can be repaired.
Disconnecting bits will only cause it to shut down and so can't be used for test purposes. It works by counting pulses from the wheel sensors and as far as I know permanently monitors the brakes and the rest of the system until it becomes active when the brake pedal is pressed (brake light switch)
In its active mode it should do nothing unless the frequency recieved from one wheel drops in relation to others. There's a bit more to it than that - but basically I think its looking for a wheel lock situation - ie no signal from a sensor.
I suppose its possible that a dirty sensor ring is causing the problem but think its unlikely. As you are now well acquainted with the sensors and rings I would have thought you would have noticed any substantial build up of dirt or rust in that area.
ECU failure is common on Xantias but its confined to early and mid 90's ones - as I think the ECU was changed after that and before the HDi's were made.
Think you'll have to get it tested and as you will see from the link I posted - they can be repaired.
jeremy
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steelcityuk
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This company is mentioned in Car Mechanics mag now and again - http://www.all-car-electronics.com/
Steve.
Steve.
not applicable
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steelcityuk
- Posts: 1053
- Joined: 03 Jul 2006, 21:51
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Well I fitted a new ABS sensor and caliper, (I suspected it was sticking) to the front nearside (what a nightmare routing the cable and accessing the connector, my car still has all the original shields and covers in place) and it's till the same, so I swapped it for the offside, still the same, I cleaned up the trigger wheels while I was at it. So what next? I suppose it could be the rear sensors, but it feels like it's offside front, (maybe thats cos it's pulsing through my fright foot) I'm at a loss now, I dont want to spend around £250 on getting the ABS ECU tested, if thats not gonna fix it, I've already sent £400 on brake parts, and the cars only worth 2 grand ish.
Mechanics hold no fear for me, but these bl**dy electronics
Where do I go from here?
Paul
BTW the brakes work perfectly with the ABS fuse pulled out.
Mechanics hold no fear for me, but these bl**dy electronics
Where do I go from here?
Paul
BTW the brakes work perfectly with the ABS fuse pulled out.
Xantia gone, now got a
Renault Laguna 1.9 Dci Sport tourer
2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
Renault Laguna 1.9 Dci Sport tourer
2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
My impression was that Car Electronics only charged £40 for an inspection - which seemed to include return postage.
I know they are now on the Isle of Wight but the postage is quite good and usually only takes a month or two.
http://www.carelect.demon.co.uk/
I know they are now on the Isle of Wight but the postage is quite good and usually only takes a month or two.
http://www.carelect.demon.co.uk/
jeremy
Merry Christmas guys
Ok a friend suggested disconnecting the sensor at the connector and putting a meter on it then spinning the wheel, you should get a small voltage reading, I did this and got a good reading on the offside but no reading on the new sensor I had fitted to the nearside front, so I checked further, I discovered the toothed trigger wheel was breaking up and you could move it on the cv joint with your fingers, so I think I need a new one.
Can you get these on their own? or does it come as part of the cv joint? or is the cv joint and driveshaft all one piece? it seem crazy to me if you have to buy a full cv joint for the sake of a £1.00 toothed wheel, antone know where I can get one? Citroen?
Paul
Ok a friend suggested disconnecting the sensor at the connector and putting a meter on it then spinning the wheel, you should get a small voltage reading, I did this and got a good reading on the offside but no reading on the new sensor I had fitted to the nearside front, so I checked further, I discovered the toothed trigger wheel was breaking up and you could move it on the cv joint with your fingers, so I think I need a new one.
Can you get these on their own? or does it come as part of the cv joint? or is the cv joint and driveshaft all one piece? it seem crazy to me if you have to buy a full cv joint for the sake of a £1.00 toothed wheel, antone know where I can get one? Citroen?
Paul
Xantia gone, now got a
Renault Laguna 1.9 Dci Sport tourer
2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
Renault Laguna 1.9 Dci Sport tourer
2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
Morning guys, I hope you all had a great Christmas.
Well I spoke to Citroen today and they say the toothed trigger wheel isnt available separately, you have to buy the driveshaft complete with cv joints, and it costs £311 + vat
Euro parts say it's a dealer only part
Anyone got any cheap quick fixes on this one, pleeease.
Paul
Well I spoke to Citroen today and they say the toothed trigger wheel isnt available separately, you have to buy the driveshaft complete with cv joints, and it costs £311 + vat
Euro parts say it's a dealer only part
Anyone got any cheap quick fixes on this one, pleeease.
Paul
Xantia gone, now got a
Renault Laguna 1.9 Dci Sport tourer
2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
Renault Laguna 1.9 Dci Sport tourer
2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
Replacing an ABS Toothed Ring with one from a Scrapyard
This appears to be quite a common failure. My Xantia hdi had a break in the RH ABS toothed ring when I got the car, though in this case, it did not cause the ABS to malfunction. It appeared to have been broken for a long time, but would almost certainly have come loose eventually. The dimensions of the hdi ABS Ring are OD 99mm, ID 90mm, with 48 Teeth.
The toothed ABS ring is a separate part on later cars, and is a press fit on the universal joint. Rust formation under the ring expands and breaks it. The ring is probably soft iron to provide good magnetic properties, but this is a very weak material..
Since replacement rings do not seem to be available separately, I was about to buy a complete drive shaft when I spotted one with an identical ring intact in a scrap yard (the shaft itself was not the same). I decided to swap over the ring, and I was able to do this without removing the driveshaft from the car.
To remove the good ring, clean away as much rust as possible, then soak the ring area in penetrating oil for a couple of days. Using a piece of aluminium, tap the ring off the shaft, going round carefully to keep it square. Mine came off fairly easily, and I cleaned it up with abrasive paper.
The shaft on the car was released from the hub but not removed further. The ring fell off once disturbed. Clean up the surface of the shaft to mainly bright metal. Once the broken ring was de-scaled, it was a loose fit even with the gap closed right up. The replacement ring was still an adequate push fit.
Fit the replacement ring same way, being very careful to keep it going on square. I am sure it is not very strong!
All seems to be well after several months. If the new ring had been loose, the plan was to use Loctite. It might indeed be better to emery out the ring until loose and Loctite it on, thus both providing a bit of moisture sealing, and also eliminating the chance of cracking it.
This appears to be quite a common failure. My Xantia hdi had a break in the RH ABS toothed ring when I got the car, though in this case, it did not cause the ABS to malfunction. It appeared to have been broken for a long time, but would almost certainly have come loose eventually. The dimensions of the hdi ABS Ring are OD 99mm, ID 90mm, with 48 Teeth.
The toothed ABS ring is a separate part on later cars, and is a press fit on the universal joint. Rust formation under the ring expands and breaks it. The ring is probably soft iron to provide good magnetic properties, but this is a very weak material..
Since replacement rings do not seem to be available separately, I was about to buy a complete drive shaft when I spotted one with an identical ring intact in a scrap yard (the shaft itself was not the same). I decided to swap over the ring, and I was able to do this without removing the driveshaft from the car.
To remove the good ring, clean away as much rust as possible, then soak the ring area in penetrating oil for a couple of days. Using a piece of aluminium, tap the ring off the shaft, going round carefully to keep it square. Mine came off fairly easily, and I cleaned it up with abrasive paper.
The shaft on the car was released from the hub but not removed further. The ring fell off once disturbed. Clean up the surface of the shaft to mainly bright metal. Once the broken ring was de-scaled, it was a loose fit even with the gap closed right up. The replacement ring was still an adequate push fit.
Fit the replacement ring same way, being very careful to keep it going on square. I am sure it is not very strong!
All seems to be well after several months. If the new ring had been loose, the plan was to use Loctite. It might indeed be better to emery out the ring until loose and Loctite it on, thus both providing a bit of moisture sealing, and also eliminating the chance of cracking it.