Xantia Brake problem

This is the Forum for all your Citroen Technical Questions, Problems or Advice.

Moderator: RichardW

Hurdsey
Posts: 40
Joined: 15 Oct 2003, 19:40
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Hurdsey »

Yeah but where is it ?

I did a search on 'idiot spring' and 'brake pedal' and I got hundreds of threads on all sorts, maybe I need to refine the keywords in the search a bit.
Xantia gone, now got a
Renault Laguna 1.9 Dci Sport tourer
2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
Hurdsey
Posts: 40
Joined: 15 Oct 2003, 19:40
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Hurdsey »

I've just got back from Westroen, 6 new spheres £150 fitted while you wait, excellent service only 2 hours from leaving work to getting back to work :) and the ride is much better
Problem is the pulsing on the brake pedal is still there :( I dont think It's as bad as it was, in fact I think it was happening less the further I drove, or maybe that's my imagination, I will check it out on my way home later, and report back tomorrow.

I also did a new search on idiot spring and this time i got what i wanted, so I'll check that out later.
Xantia gone, now got a
Renault Laguna 1.9 Dci Sport tourer
2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
jeremy
Posts: 3959
Joined: 20 Oct 2002, 16:00
Location: Hampshire, UK
My Cars:
x 2

Post by jeremy »

Always worth doing Citroebics to see if any gas can be expelled - raise and lower fully a few times.
jeremy
RichardW
Forum Treasurer
Posts: 10814
Joined: 07 Aug 2002, 17:12
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars: MK2 '17 C4GP 1.6 BlueHDi 120
'13 3008 1.6 HDi GripControl
x 984

Post by RichardW »

I'm sure when I got my current VSX it was doing this. However, best advice I can give is to a) strip and grease the rear brakes - this really increases the sharpness of the brakes and b) use the buggers! There is a definite tendency with a Xantia to be light on the brakes, but mine is much improved after giving the brakes plenty of welly!
Richard W
Hurdsey
Posts: 40
Joined: 15 Oct 2003, 19:40
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Hurdsey »

Yep the problem is still there, so this weekend I'm going to fit new pads and discs to the rear and put a couple of litres of LHM through the system, I've never been beaten by a car yet and I aint starting now :D
Xantia gone, now got a
Renault Laguna 1.9 Dci Sport tourer
2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

citroebics will not get any air out of the brake system as they are 4 dead ends,so the only way to get any gas/air out is to bleed them all thourghly
regards malcolm
slim123
Posts: 377
Joined: 20 Jul 2006, 22:49
Location:
My Cars:

Post by slim123 »

Have you changed the LHM yet???

Bleeding a couple of litres through aint gonna help as if it was an air problem, you would have a delay if it was air in the brakes.

Earlier on you said that it is the original, this will be well past it's sell by date and needs changing at the minimum but probabaly needs to be treated with a realy good Hydraflushing.

Get some flushing fluid either from Citroen, Pleiades or GSF, then flush the system and then change the LHM for either Castrol or Total, nuffin else.

Regards
Slim.
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

if as you said in an earlyer post your pedel is pulsing,this is a sympton of air in the brake circuit,how did you bleed the brake when you tried to,with hydraulic citroens it is best to have the car fully up on its highest setting,then bleed one caliper at a time,just open one bleed niple with a clear length of tube atached and with the engine running press on the pedel,hold it down do not pump,once you get a solid stream on clean LHM shut off that niple,repeat this on the other three
regards malcolm
Hurdsey
Posts: 40
Joined: 15 Oct 2003, 19:40
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Hurdsey »

I followed the intructions in the Haynes manual,suspension on highest setting, jack up all 4 wheels off the ground, then bled all 4 corners in the correct order, with a tube into a clean bottle (as you should) my fuid reservoir was full to max but I only had about half a litre spare to hand at the time, so I put that through also, the fluid coming out was a bit murky, the front started to come clear quickly (obviously) but the rear was still murky when I stopped cos I was worried about running out of LHM, so as I said earlier this weekend I'm going to fit new rear discs and pads, then give it a proper bleed.

Thanks again for everyones reply's, I'll report back with the results after the weekend, I know I'm going to win this one, but It's a steep learning curve.

Paul
Xantia gone, now got a
Renault Laguna 1.9 Dci Sport tourer
2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
citronut
Posts: 10937
Joined: 29 Apr 2005, 00:46
Location: United Kingdom east sussex
My Cars:
x 92

Post by citronut »

check the fluid level in the tank with the car on level ground put it up to its highest setting and wait for it to stop riseing,now the yellow plastic disc should be between the two red bands on the clear plastic dome,it is very unlikly the rear discs and pads will be anything to do with this problem
regards malcolm
Hurdsey
Posts: 40
Joined: 15 Oct 2003, 19:40
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Hurdsey »

Morning again chaps, well I fitted new rear pads and discs at the weekend, the discs were badly corroded on the inboard face and the pads about 65% worn so it was a worthwhile exercise.
I also bled 2 litres of New Total LHM through the system, there was no sign of any air coming through, and the problem is still present.
As has been said earlier it's now time to completely renew the LHM.
So do I really need to flush out the system? In the Haynes book it says to leave flushing fluid in for 600 miles thats about 6 weeks for me and my Mot's due in 3 weeks :(
To drain the system Haynes book says, set suspension to minimum, depressurise the system, turn the steering wheel from lock to lock, this should empty the pump into the reservoir, remove the reservoir and empty it, clean it out with petrol, refit and top up, what I want to know is, will this be enough? I assume I then bleed the system till clear LHM comes through, How much LHM do I need to have to hand for when I start this job? It doesent mention capacity in the Haynes book.
Colud it be anything else?

Ta

Paul

Edited to add

Yep thanks Malcolm I have been checking the level in that way on a regular basis.
Xantia gone, now got a
Renault Laguna 1.9 Dci Sport tourer
2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
jeremy
Posts: 3959
Joined: 20 Oct 2002, 16:00
Location: Hampshire, UK
My Cars:
x 2

Post by jeremy »

There's probably no point in renewing the LHM if what came out looked about the right colour. If it was really discoloured and looke dirty then the system may benefit from flushing. This is my view - others may disagree.

LHM is a mineral oil. There is a risk of water contamination in the brake pipes due to osmosis through the flexy hoses - which will collect in the brakes as they are dead ends - but you have bled this out now.

The ABS can be eliminated by temporarily disabling it - by disconnecting a wheel sensor or a fuse. It will just cease to do anything - so you will then know it isn't the source of your problems as the car will have a normal non-ABS braking system. As your car is designed to have it - you shouldn't leave it disconnected for longer than is necessary for test purposes.

Is your accumulator now working? What is the cycling frequency?
jeremy
Hurdsey
Posts: 40
Joined: 15 Oct 2003, 19:40
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Hurdsey »

The accumulator seems to be ok, the suspension feels much better and the 'sit in the boot test' works as it should, (it didnt work before) not sure about the cycling rate, being a little deaf make hearing different noises difficult in the engine bay but I'll go out and give it a go now.

Thanks Jeremy

Paul
Xantia gone, now got a
Renault Laguna 1.9 Dci Sport tourer
2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
Hurdsey
Posts: 40
Joined: 15 Oct 2003, 19:40
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Hurdsey »

Ok just sneaked out of work (I'll be getting in trouble with my boss) I really couldn't pick out a different rate in the ticking other than the engine ticking over, I did a couple of citerobic ups and downs, then did the sit in the boot test, and it was fine, maybe if i try it with the engine covers off and rest my hand on the Pump or Accumulator and see if I can 'feel' the ticking iyswim

Paul
Xantia gone, now got a
Renault Laguna 1.9 Dci Sport tourer
2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
Hurdsey
Posts: 40
Joined: 15 Oct 2003, 19:40
Location: United Kingdom
My Cars:

Post by Hurdsey »

Ok yesterday I went back to my first suspicians (ABS) I pulled out the fuse, guess what the bl**dy problem went away :oops:

So now it's back to ABS sensors, nearside first, I think everyone say's thats the one that allways goes first.

All the other work needed doing anyway, so if anything I've gain a lot of experience of Citroen hydraulics :D
Xantia gone, now got a
Renault Laguna 1.9 Dci Sport tourer
2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
Post Reply