Xantia Brake problem

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Hurdsey
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Xantia Brake problem

Post by Hurdsey »

My car 2001 Xantia HDI 110 has an intermittant fault on the brakes. On light braking it sometimes feels like the ABS is kicking in, I suspected a wheel sensor, but Citroen Manchester said if it was that the ABS light would come on (it doesent), they then said a caliper might be sticking, is replacing this this a big job ? or is a service kit available ? I'm quite capable with a set of spanners (built a kit car once) but the hydraulic system scares me a bit, All they want to do is keep throwing parts at it (at my expense) til' the problem goes away, and I'm not prepared to pay their labour charges for changing parts I dont need. Anyone out there got any ideas?

Paul
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Peter.N.
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Post by Peter.N. »

Do you mean that the pedal is pulsing or brakes shuddering or that it feels as though the brakes are being released?
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Post by citronut »

sounds to me like air in the brake system,try bleeding the brake all round first,and this is very easy with hydraulic citroen,as the presure is there all tje time if the engine has been run,so you just open each kniple one at a time press the pedle wait for a good steady flow of citro blood to come out ,then shut the kniple,air in the brake system is usualy caused by the regulater shere dumpping it gas into the system,so if it is ticking frequently replace that at the same time
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Post by jeremy »

There are several threads on this subject.

I agree with malcolm - could well be gas in the system and the accumulator sphere is the most likely culprit. You can test it by running the car at normal height for a couple of minutes to let it stabilise, thn turn off the engine and sit in the boot. The car should drop a long way then rise again (powered by the accumulator) after about 30 seconds. If it doesn't then the accumulator sphere is suspect.

You may be able to get some of the gas out by 'Citroebics' - raising and dropping the car fully a number of times. This will NOT clear any gas that has got into the brake 'limbs' but will clear it from the circulating bits.

A defective accumulator usually is accompanied by rapid regulator cycling (5 - 10 seconds.) If the car is raised fully this frequency will drop as the suspension spheres function as accumulators.

The accumulator is vital for the proper fumnction of the ABS system. A life of between 2 and 4 years is normal - but I had a replacement one fail after 18 months and a very small mileage on my BX this year.
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Post by slim123 »

Paul.

Hows the LHM, I would suggest an LHM change is due, if the car has "cheap" LHM then this sort of problem does happen, change the LHM but only use Castrol or Total, the other brands, whilst up to spec, are a little on the thin side.

If it was air in the brakes, you would be getting a delay, on and off, not much but enough to make you poo yer pants in a traffic jam.

Regards
Slim.
Hurdsey
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Post by Hurdsey »

Peter.N. wrote:Do you mean that the pedal is pulsing or brakes shuddering or that it feels as though the brakes are being released?
Wow so many replies so quick thanks guys.

The pedal is pulsing and it does feel like the brakes are being released, but with a bit of a shudder iyswim, also if I yank on the handbrake it slows as it should, which seems to rule out a disc/pad /wheel bearing problem.

The LHM is original, I have topped it up a couple of times with genuine (supplied by Citroen) Total LHM.

I'm usually quite 'light' on the brakes, my last car a ZX did 60.000miles in 4 years without a pad change, this Xantia has had, nearside caliper, offside wheel bearing, pads and discs, all on the front, I'm beginning to think its time for a change, C5 anyone :)

edited to add

Oh yeah I have tried Citarobics, I have been thinking lately that the suspension is getting firmer than it was, and have suspected that it may need new sheres, is the accumulator sphere specific to the brakes or linked to the suspension and where is it ?
Xantia gone, now got a
Renault Laguna 1.9 Dci Sport tourer
2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
john alexander
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Post by john alexander »

Hi have you thrown away the idiot spring under the pedal and replaced it with a piece of metal tube. , plenty of threads on here. regards john.
jeremy
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Post by jeremy »

The accumulator is on the regulator - first component after the pump if you follow the piping (one of the outlets - the other is the steering.)

Your Xantia has a 2 outlet pump - the major one (6 cylinders) feeds the steering, the other one (2 cylinders) feeds the brakes and suspension. All is fine if the accumulator is working as this holds up to 1/2 litre of high pressure LHM - so there's plenty to draw on when you operate the brakes.

If it goes flat - you're down to the small pump output which comes in pulses. What may be happening is that you apply the brakes - power comes from the pump and starts to compress the gas in the system, but not much by way of brakes - so you press a bit harder, open the valve more, pump output catches up and suddenly the brakes apply hard.

This may be compounded by the spring under the pedal (see other posts - this is another subject)
jeremy
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Post by uhn113x »

Hurdsey wrote:.... is the accumulator sphere specific to the brakes or linked to the suspension and where is it ?
It is a reservoir or storage tank connected to the entire hydraulic pressure line, and situated lower centre front of engine.

Just like a suspension sphere without the damper.
Mike in West Yorks
1982 GSA Pallas
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Hurdsey
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Post by Hurdsey »

I've just been out for a short drive and guess what?

The front pad wear indicator light has just started to come on when the pedal is pressed, so this weekend it,s gonna be new pads and bleed, then we'll see what happens next, do i need a special tool to push the piston back ?
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2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
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Post by Malcolm »

Haynes manual dos give a specific Citroen Tool number but also recommends flat bar as an alternative and turning piston in clockwise direction when pushing back in. I asked this question a week or so ago as to why rotation was req'd. I've done the job on two Xantias improvising with bar to replace pads and handbake cables with no problems.
Malcolm
'98 Xantia Estate LX - RIP 13/08/16
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Post by Peter.N. »

If you can find a piece of flat bar or similar that is wide enough to fit into the piston endways, so you can get complete turns on it, this will considerably speed up the process as turning it half a turn at a time seems to take forever.
Hurdsey
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Post by Hurdsey »

Thanks guys, when we say flat bar what section size are we talking about? 3mm or 6mm thick x about 40mm wide? just checking so i can pop round to the local steel fabricators before the weekend and nick a bit :wink:
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2000 Westfield SEIW 175Bhp
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Post by jeremy »

I've always managed to push my BX ones round with the end of a screwdriver, but in fact the squared slots are meant to fit the shaft of a mechanics square shafted screwdriver.

http://www.machinemart.co.uk/product.asp?p=040213010
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Post by uhn113x »

I find a square screwdriver is as good as anything; the piston is turned rather than pushed.

The reason for this is because of the way that the internal quick-thread self-adjusting handbrake works.
Mike in West Yorks
1982 GSA Pallas
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