HeadGasket failure?

Post by **ekaftan** » 14 Nov 2006, 13:30

My wife called me last evening while driving her Xantia (2.0i 8v 1996).

RPMs were bouncing around and bucking at traffic lights.

As no warning lights were on and temp was fine, I told her to keep on and get home (2 miles away) and I will check on it coming home.

I got home around 8, thought it was running on 3 cylinders, replaced all 4 spark plugs and repaired a vacumm leak. It run better, but still not perfect.

10 seconds later the fans came on full speed, temp climbed to 100 and steam started coming from the exhaust and oil dipstick.

The obvious diagnosis is headgasket failure, right?

Is that a common failure on 2.0 8v engines?

8304 · Post by **8304** » 14 Nov 2006, 15:49

i hate to say it buddy but it looks like it is just that.

when the hg went on my old zx td it droped onto 3 cylinders and started running very lumpy.

a few more checks just to b sure:

does the coolant system pressurise very soon after starting, before the engine is warm??

water in oil on dipstick??

bubbles rising in the header tank when the engine is revved??

can u do a compression test??

BEWARE: THE COOLANT SYSTEM WILL BE PRESSURISED WHEN HOT, BE VERY CAREFULL TO AVOID ACCIDENTS AND SCALDS!!! ONLY REMOVE RAD CAP WHEN ENGINE IS COLD!!

Post by **ekaftan** » 14 Nov 2006, 16:19

8304 wrote:
does the coolant system pressurise very soon after starting, before the engine is warm??

water in oil on dipstick??

bubbles rising in the header tank when the engine is revved??

can u do a compression test??

System does pressurise soon.

Water and oil comes under pressure from the dipstick hole.

Cannot see the bubbles on the header tank in a Xantia...

Compression test in progress.

Its textbook head gasket failure. I am just shocked to see the first one
go in years of owning old cars and abusing them

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 15 Nov 2006, 08:53

Dont be fooled by a stuck thermostat or low coolant level - has happened to me.
I noticed you wrote that the temp climbed to 100 ?
Thats definately not normal for a h/g failure - but indicates something at fault that COULD cause a h/g failure.

Remember : a too high or climbing temp is NOT an indication of h/g failure. Its the other way round : if engine gets too hot - the h/g will eventually fail because of that.

Once the engine gets hot (more than normal) it will ooze from all points with ventilation or oily/damp dirt collected.

Adstar · Post by **Adstar** » 15 Nov 2006, 15:05

Just read Anders's note and it took me back to my beloved and now dismantled MR2. I have the following symptoms: Bouncing temperature guage and irratic revs, gradual loss of coolant over short journeys, sudden boiling of coolant (and corresponding reading on temp gauge). The system was always coming up to pressure at all temps until it boiled!

Oil and water were not mixing, and the system coudl be refilled and bleed to allow the journey to continue.

The final diagnosis once the head gasket finally exploded....

A blocked radiator!

This was a result of the 1st hg change and the system being drained. It appeared that I had not flushed the rad correctly as well.

So, based on this experience and Anders's theory, I would check the rad heats up all over once the engine is warm. Consider replacing the thermostat (Should be the cheapest and easiest fix). Its even worth flushign the system. You can measure how much comes out.. try and dislodge any other 'blockages'. Hopefully you might avoid the expensive of a hg replacement and all the corresponding trouble.

Post by **ekaftan** » 15 Nov 2006, 16:13

I have had cars with that erratic temp symptoms before and I agree with you, they all were just cooling issues. But this one is different. This car has never, ever, used any coolant at all and temp has always been rock solid until two days ago.

The sequence of events was this: sudden loss of power with no warning lights and temp fine. Power loss not fixed with new spark plugs and some other minor fixes. After restarting to go for a drive, and in the course of 2 minutes or less, water started coming out of the exhaust, steam started coming out of the dipstick hole and then temp climbed past 100....

So I am pretty sure the hg is blown. I will try to check why it blew while the head is out. I will replace the thermostat and check blockage as suggested... thanks...

Post by **ekaftan** » 19 Nov 2006, 00:09

ekaftan wrote: So I am pretty sure the hg is blown. I will try to check why it blew while the head is out. I will replace the thermostat and check blockage as suggested... thanks...

Following up myself.... I got around to remove the head friday. We were all right. The hg was blown AND the thermostat housing was plugged with rust and stuck closed.

The interesting part is that the hg blew the first time since I own the car that the temperature rose above normal...

I sent the head to a machine shop for checking, cleaning and possible resurfacing and will try to reassemble it next week.

I am stuck driving a 1995 Chevrolet Luv in the meantime

Post by **philhoward** » 19 Nov 2006, 10:08

You might want to pressure check the pressure cap on the expansion bottle as well - my dad had a 2.0 8V Xantia which actually blew up the radiator (end cap came off..). When he had the cap pressure tested is still hadn't blown off at 45psi (3 bar), but the Cit garage's test equipment only went up to 3bar..

Post by **ekaftan** » 23 Nov 2006, 04:20

philhoward wrote:You might want to pressure check the pressure cap on the expansion bottle as well - my dad had a 2.0 8V Xantia which actually blew up the radiator (end cap came off..). When he had the cap pressure tested is still hadn't blown off at 45psi (3 bar), but the Cit garage's test equipment only went up to 3bar..

Well... head came back from the machine shop welded. It had a crack between cilinders 3 and 4

I get the car back friday. Nice part of living in southamerica is that labor will be very cheap...

Post by **philhoward** » 23 Nov 2006, 20:28

Just don't forget to try and find the cause of the overheating - you wouldn't want to have to go through that again!

Post by **ekaftan** » 25 Nov 2006, 03:15

philhoward wrote:Just don't forget to try and find the cause of the overheating - you wouldn't want to have to go through that again!

Car is back. Head was sent to the machine shop for pressure testing, it failed because it had a large crack. Crack was welded, valves, seats, guides and oil seals were machined or replaced. Total bill for machine shop: US$163

Parts (gaskets, one hose, oil, coolant, plugs, oil seals and other small things) were US$100

I own part of the garage, so labor is cheap. I used a mechanic 4 days and thats US$86. Yes, I live in southamerica so labor is incredibly cheap compared to what most of you would have paid. The downside is US$100 shipping for parts when I cannot source locally.

I still have to replace the heater core. It either was leaking before and contributed to the overheating, or failed during the overheating. Its summer down here, so I bypassed it until February when I'll be on vacation and can do it myself.

So it was not that bad. Worse part was the week of riding the bus to work.