Rear sphere removal nightmare

phil_box · Post by **phil_box** » 23 Sep 2006, 16:18

Hello there,

I own a 96 Xantia 1.9td hatch and am attempting to remove the rear suspension spheres:

So far I have tried:

1. A strap wrench - won't budge even with 1.5' long wrench

2. Making my own tool, consiting of a 2' long bar with a 8mm stud bent in a loop and and fed through holes in the bar, then clamped on sphere using nuts - Still won't budge, difficult getting full leverage while lying under car though!

3. A steel mallet and cold chisel - no sign of giving

4. A steel mallet, cold chisel and lots of heat from a blow torch - At my wits end, still won't budge!!!!

Has anybody go any other ideas? I've tried with both the system pressurised and depressurised.

The only other method I can think of is possibly taking the whole hydraulic unit out (with sphere attached) and give it a go in vice. However, not sure unit can be removed without removing the sphere first!!

Any advice on this is much appreciated

Thanks

Phil Box (Plymouth)

gbsmiley · Post by **gbsmiley** » 23 Sep 2006, 16:24

You need the Special tool from plieades or a big pair of stillsons.

Put car on full height with engine running, or the spheres & associated feed pipes will move.

regards,
gbsmiley

np · Post by np » 23 Sep 2006, 17:18

Having never needed to change my spheres in nearly 5 yrs & 70k miles

,i can only go by what i have read on this forum about the rear spheres being hard to undo.Load the boot up with all your friends so theres weight on the rear,then try to undo them half a turn with the system pressurised.

KevMayer · Post by **KevMayer** » 23 Sep 2006, 17:26

By coincidence i've just today replaced the two rear strut spheres on my Xantia Activa.

I ran the engine and put the suspension into high position.

Jacked up the rear of the car and suported it on two axle stands.

I then put the suspension into lowest setting.

Stopped the engine and undid the accumulator pressure release bolt.

I put another jack under the rear trailing arms and jacked the wheels up until the arms were against the bump stops (ie. to low position). This was to get the remaining LHM out of the rear struts. I supported the arms in this position while I worked on the spheres.

I tried my trusty old strap wrench and the spheres unfastened after a bit of a tug.

I then wound the spheres off by hand and carefully fitted the new seals and spheres hand tight.

From the way you describe the tightness I would first ask if you've cracked the pressure relief bolt ? and secondly, this may seem a bit cheeky, but I feel I need to point it out even though its unlikely, are you trying to turn the spheres off in an anticlockwise direction ?

cheers,

Kev

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 23 Sep 2006, 17:29

Careful- don't these struts turn and damage the feed pipe? Isn't this the rason it is recommended that the sphere is cracked undone with weight on the car to lock the strut to the subframe and prevent it from turning

Homer · Post by **Homer** » 23 Sep 2006, 17:34

KevMayer wrote: I tried my trusty old strap wrench and the spheres unfastened after a bit of a tug.

You were extremely lucky, I have never known a rear sphere move without being "cracked" with the system under pressure.

I have however broken the feed pipe on a BX by trying to remove them with the system depressurised.

In reply to the original poster, the struts cannot be removed with the spheres in place.

KevMayer · Post by **KevMayer** » 23 Sep 2006, 17:40

Jeremy,

I seem to have got away with it then. My rear spheres came off so easily without any sign of the struts turning.

I've been for a test drive and the car feels much more comfortable and I've checked for signs of leaking LHM and all seems to be intact.

I read a few posts here and studied my Haynes manual before I did it . Its the first time I've replaced a sphere myself. The summary of all the advise I could find lead me to do it the way I described above.

Cheers,

Kev

KevMayer · Post by **KevMayer** » 23 Sep 2006, 17:43

Homer,

I'll jack the Activa up tomorrow and check the feed pipes just to make sure.

You do realise I won't be able to sleep tonight.....

Kev

KevMayer · Post by **KevMayer** » 23 Sep 2006, 18:04

Ok.... Panic over...

I've just been to look under the car.

You can't turn the strut when you twist off the sphere.

The feed pipe connects to the strut at the end where the sphere fits.

The feed pipe screws into a boss on the side of the strut.

This boss sits in a hole in a support bracket. The support bracket is attached to the subframe.

The spring clip at the sphere end holds the strut/boss in the bracket.

So, the support bracket makes it impossible to turn the strut because you'd haveto shear the boss off first which isn't going to happen.

Many thanks for pointing out that I might have had a problem. It appears that the Xantia (maybe just the Activa) doesn't suffer from the risk of damaging the feed pipe. Maybe this was just something the BX was prone to.

I will be able to sleep now... I'm off now to a family night out.. once I've cleaned the LHM from under my nails... you know the problem..

Cheers,

Kev

Gregg1100 · Post by **Gregg1100** » 23 Sep 2006, 18:33

Hi Phil,
You need one of these;

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v676/ ... 010423.jpg

If you need measurements to knock one up, feel free to email.
If you can't get sphere undone on car, you will never do it with it on bench. Try loading boot with people when suspension on highest setting, as described by others here, then with one of your improvisations, you should be able to crack the seal.
Hope this helps,
Greg

slim123 · Post by **slim123** » 23 Sep 2006, 19:43

What you need is a proper tool, ie the Band wrench from Pleiades (01487 831239)

Or even 3 of them according to the previous post !!!!!!

Put the car back up onto the ramps then leave the engine running and the car in high.
Put the band wrench on the sphere and try to turn it, if the same thing happens, give the band wrench handle a realy good hard thump towards the sphere using a heavy lump hammer, this will shock the joint and crack the corrosion.

Then depresurise the suspension on the lever, when the car settles, the spheres should spin off by hand.

Tis only corrosion that holds the sphere as they were only fitted hand tight at the factory.

You could try the engine running proccess using the tool that you have, but if all fails, give Pleiades a call.

Regards
Slim

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 23 Sep 2006, 21:59

slim123 wrote:Tis only corrosion that holds the sphere as they were only fitted hand tight at the factory.

Indeed, it's corrosion that gives all the grief trying to get spheres off, I'm surprised nobody suggested using a penetrating lubricant spray to make it easier - I use a good squirt of LPS1 at the sphere/cylinder junction a couple of minutes before trying to undo it on stubborn spheres and it hasn't failed me yet.

I also find a lump hammer does wonders - one guy pulling firm but steady on the strap wrench and someone else hits the main body of the sphere with the lump hammer - the extra jolt usually does the trick in helping to break the corrosion bond, but without having to apply excessive force to the strap wrench.

Sometimes plain brute force isn't the answer

Regards,
Simon

Richard Gallagher · Post by **Richard Gallagher** » 23 Sep 2006, 22:10

KevMayer wrote:Ok.... Panic over...

I've just been to look under the car.

You can't turn the strut when you twist off the sphere.

The feed pipe connects to the strut at the end where the sphere fits.

The feed pipe screws into a boss on the side of the strut.

This boss sits in a hole in a support bracket. The support bracket is attached to the subframe.

The spring clip at the sphere end holds the strut/boss in the bracket.

So, the support bracket makes it impossible to turn the strut because you'd haveto shear the boss off first which isn't going to happen.

Many thanks for pointing out that I might have had a problem. It appears that the Xantia (maybe just the Activa) doesn't suffer from the risk of damaging the feed pipe. Maybe this was just something the BX was prone to.

Strangley enough I also changed sphere's on my Activa today although I did all ten of them.

Kev, your line of thinking that you cannot damage the supply pipes on Activa's or other Hydractive Xantia's (the strut assembly is the same design) is not sound advice for anyone looking to embark on this task in the future.

I've changed sphere's on quite a number of Hydractive Xantia's and the only difference between those and 'normal' Xantia's is the Hydractive pipe running into the side of the strut.

As others have mentioned above, rear sphere's can be extremely tight, indeed at times I have used a 4' long scaffold pole on my Pleiades tool for extra leverage and even then had to resort to 'shocking' it with a large club hammer.

My advice for anyone removing rear sphere's is to put the car on its highest setting to lock the strut in place then just turn the sphere enough to 'crack' the seal before lowering/depressurising the hydraulics.

Post by **Peter.N.** » 23 Sep 2006, 22:13

The ultimate tools are a bigger hammer and a bigger chisel. It must be sharp so it will sink into the seam.

slim123 · Post by **slim123** » 24 Sep 2006, 11:46

Just a couple of points.

NP, If you are running a Xantia for 5 years / 70'000 miles, then you are running on knackered spheres, sorry but this is not a matter of opinion but a matter of fact, ok so the fronts may be the multi layer type and last longer, but the rest will be just about had it by now.

Please dont use a hammer and chisel, not only is it a complete bodge, but you will be striking a pressure vessel and you do not know how much pressure there is in it, also by using the hammer and chisel method, you are not only trying to turn the sphere, the thrust and shock is sometimes enough to crack the suspension cylinder at the thinnest part, ie where the threads are, a new suspension cylinder will cost about 4 times as much as a decent band wrench.

Regards
Slim

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Rear sphere removal nightmare

Rear sphere removal nightmare

Rear Sphere Removal Nightmare