Xantia - when I accelerated the car pulled to the right.....

dazcro · Post by **dazcro** » 17 Sep 2006, 11:18

Hi There, Here's the problem that you might help solve. I have a Xantia 1.8i 8 valve and just today got new tyres and the wheels aligned, tracked and balanced. I left the garage after the job was done and when I accelerated the car pulled to the right and when I decelerated the car pulled to the left. On the open road the car was all over the road swaying left to right. I went back to the shop and they did an alignment check and it was out. They aligned it once more and this time it was a bit better but now the problem is when I accelerate / decelerate in third the car is doing the same (Using High Revs). The garage recon its either the Rack and Pinion or the Power Steering. They checked the wheel bearings and they are ok. Any ideas?
PS This was a Tyre, Exhaust & Shocks Garage only.

Thanks....
Daz

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 17 Sep 2006, 11:34

where were the old tyres worn any edge in particular and if so was it one side of the car or both the same,if it was just one side you might have a suspension arm bush worn out allowing the track to go out of line,or the place you had the work done by c**ked it up the first time
regards malcolm

pas.
welcom to this forum

Post by **Peter.N.** » 17 Sep 2006, 16:26

If this has only happened since the new tyres were fitted, just check to make sure both front tyres are the same size.

Post by **philhoward** » 17 Sep 2006, 16:31

Sounds like they've been lazy doing the tracking (assuming it was wrong in the first place..). You can get strange behaviour if when they tracked it up they only adjusted the one track rod (both should be adjusted by the same amount). This will lead to uneven lengths left and right on the track rods and suddenly the suspension geometry is all to cock. Basically the steering is now off-centre!

A quick visual check would be have a look at the amount of thread showing before the track rod end - if there's more thread one side than the other, take it back and insist they do the job properly this time. It'll now take themtwice as long as they'll have to set it up to centre the steering, THEN re-track it up correctly.

It's not unknown for some places to re-track a car that's set perfectly to start with, mainly because their equipment is out of calibration!

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 17 Sep 2006, 19:38

maybe they had the car set on the highest setting when they first attemted to adjust the tracking,this would give them the wrong reading,a lot of tyre shops dont know how to use there tracking equipment
regards malcolm

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 18 Sep 2006, 00:06

I'd check all the bottom suspension bushes and bearings very carefully, then as its a Xantia - the top strut mounts (can pop through the bonnet!) then the rack mounts.

Slack in the rack might cause a problem - but I don't think this one. The will be apparent as slack at the steering wheel rim. Loose rack mounts will probably show up if the wheel is rocked vigorously with the car standing and the engine off.

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 18 Sep 2006, 06:42

Come on fellas, wheel alignment error (trackrod adjustment) cant cause this fault

If it pulls to the right during acceleration and pulls to the left when you ease off or brake clearly there is play in the suspension on one side, most likely the bottom balljoint, the lower arm bushes, or the trackrod balljoints.

What wheel alignment CAN do is disguise the real problem. By setting excessive toe-out, the self centring torque of the tyres (especially NEW tyres) can be strong enough to keep the play in the balljoints held in one direction, hiding the symptoms most of the time. (But wearing your tyres out quickly and making the steering heavy)

What probably happened is this - there was already slack in one of the above mentioned joints/bushes before the tyres were replaced but for whatever reason there was a large amount of toe-out set which was hiding it.

Garage fits new tyres, measures the toe-out and finds its excessive, so they reset it to the middle of the acceptable range. Now suddenly the car starts wandering around because of the slack in the joints/bushes. You take it back they set the toe-out back to what it was before and it partially hides the problem again.

Ask them what the toe-out was the first time they sent you off, and what they set it to the second time....

Without doubt you will find the root cause is not wheel alignment but one of the joints/bushes mentioned above, and until that problem is found and fixed its a waste of time getting any further wheel alignment adjustments done.

(And in fact when the problem IS fixed you will need to get the alignment checked one last time)

Regards,
Simon

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 18 Sep 2006, 08:59

yes Simon this is exactly what i was trying to say,but you just put it over a bit clearer than i,if you read my first reply i asked how the tyres had worn as this would show which side the problem lies,all being its just one side affected
regards malcolm

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 18 Sep 2006, 20:43

Sorry malcolm, I overlooked your post!

Regards,
Simon

dazcro · Post by **dazcro** » 21 Sep 2006, 20:28

Hi Guys,

Thanks a lot for all your detailed replies, it is appreciated. I was unable to check the old tyres but from memory they were just below the legal limit and seemed to be evenly worn on both sides and centre.

The new tyres were both the same size. 165 - 85 R15 Firestone Firehawks H rating.

I did have a 1996 Xantia 1.9TD and had it for a few years. I remember hitting a swimming pool size pot hole which damaged the lower suspension arm. I had a similar issue there but it was 10 times worse!! And it was as if the car hopped left and right. The steering was that bad that I thought it would look good in the circus. 250 Euro to replace the part as the repair would have cost nearly as much.

Looking at you replies and having checked the various items mentioned on them, it looks like worn bushes maybe on the LSA like above but to a lesser degree. I'll check it out and let you know.

What’s the deal with the Garage telling me that it's the power steering??? Or the Rack and Pinion worn??? Can these problems happen just after a tire change and wheel alignment? Not that I'm really complaining, if there is an issue there then I would like to get it sorted. A Xantia with comfort issues is a Big problem as you can agree.

Any further feedback would be great!!!!

Thanks again.... DAZ

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 21 Sep 2006, 20:42

Rack and pinion wear doesn't seem to happen on Xantias but whould show as slack when the vehicle is stationary, engine off and wheel moved from side to side. Before accusing the rack check the column joints and any rubber disc coupling to the rack.

Power steering either works or it doesn't - or it can be intermittent - but it doesn't start to navigate the car on its own.

citronut · Post by **citronut** » 21 Sep 2006, 20:55

it is not allways easy to find play in the lower arm bushes,as very slight play can allow the car to go out of track with the force put on it which you cant replicate whilst the car is stationary or of the ground with a lever
regards malcolm