Citroen beginner - strange Xantia suspension behaviour?

steelcityuk · Post by **steelcityuk** » 04 Jul 2006, 09:38

Hi All,

Please let me introduce myself.

I'm Steve and I've just bought a Xantia HDi Exclusive. I decided that my Peugeot 405 TD was too normal and wanted something different. So after weeks of research I took the plunge and bought a Xantia off Ebay. The car has loads of service history and seems to be exactly what it should be considering it's age and mileage (137,000). Over the summer I intend to replace the cambelt and tensioners, water pump, etc. and the tackle the nitty gritty jobs that garages don't do - waxoyling, etc.

My main concern at the moment is some strange suspension behaviour.
I've read a lot of posts and done a few searches but haven't found any mention of a problem quite the same as mine. Basically I can drop the Xantia to the lowest setting but then it won't rise unless I set it to the highest setting (wheel changing?) and then lowering it to the normal setting. If from the lowest position I then select normal, the front will rise and then occasionally 'jump' up and then settle. From looking at the service history and the condition of the spheres I think it's had the strut ones replaced and the one in the middle behind the radiator. I've cleaned and oiled the back dog bone (?) link and associated parts, the link appears to be intact. I found this picture linked to on the forum - http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 366100.gif - is this the front or rear valve? I ask because this shows 2 dog bones and I only saw 1 at the rear. Could it be that the rear hydractive sphere is faulty?
Sorry for all the questions, I've ordered a CD from Ebay and hope to call out tonight for Haynes and a few service bits from GSF.

Thanks.

Steve.

jeremy · Post by **jeremy** » 04 Jul 2006, 11:31

Open this link and click on 'Technical guide' in the top left corner. This links to a downloadable textbook explaining how all the various forms of hydraulics fitted to modern Citroens works.

http://www.tramontana.co.hu/citroen/

steelcityuk · Post by **steelcityuk** » 04 Jul 2006, 11:42

Hi Jeremy,

Thanks for the link. Very useful. I've seen quite a few sites during my pre buying research but didn't turn this one up.

Steve.

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 04 Jul 2006, 16:27

A very good explanation on the basics in the system :
http://web.actwin.com/toaph/citroen/work/work.html

The link on the height corrector valves you found - is for BOTH front & rear - hence the 2 different schematics on the same drawing.
Note : there is only 1 corrector valve per axle. I.e. no sidewards correction of the height.

pwatson · Post by **pwatson** » 04 Jul 2006, 19:33

OK, so I am going to be extremely ignorant and show my lack of technical knowledge!!
Does your "problem" matter? If you leave your car at the normal setting does the car handle and ride perfectly normally?
We have had an HDi Exclusive for 4 years, the ride and handling are perfect according to our local independent and us but from what I recall lowering it to base level and then trying to raise it to normal it is not perfectly smooth, so it could behave exactly as yours does -----or not! Perhaps all of these "rise and then occasionally 'jump' up and then settle"?? Maybe it is something to do with weight distribution between front and back? Why is it abnormal?
I would just enjoy the car!! They are good 'uns!

406 V6 · Post by **406 V6** » 04 Jul 2006, 22:35

I would recommend freeing the height linkages that go from the HCs to the height lever, but with the car ALWAYS on a pit or on axle stands. These cars kill!!! Many people have died from not being cautious and working under the car and on the suspension without support for the car body.
Then spray some grease on the moving points. Sounds like sticky height linkages.

deian · Post by **deian** » 04 Jul 2006, 22:53

my car goes up in steps too, may stop a while, then go up more, and may even drop madly an inch, the back may go up after the front or vice versa, i think nothing of it.... personally i would hydraflush the system and put new lhm in it to see if it will help, if not whats the big deal, but as pwatson said... if it works well otherwise (comfortable to drive, handles well) then don't worry about it, enjoy the best xantia u can get... the hdi exclusive with hydractive II!

steelcityuk · Post by **steelcityuk** » 04 Jul 2006, 23:17

Hi all,

Thanks for the comments and advice. Y' all maybe right about just enjoying it but I just don't have any real reference point for what is normal. I've noticed that setting off the back can drop quite low. Maybe I'll just give it a good looking over and see how it goes.

Steve.

LeeDJC · Post by **LeeDJC** » 04 Jul 2006, 23:22

steelcityuk wrote:Hi all,

Thanks for the comments and advice. Y' all maybe right about just enjoying it but I just don't have any real reference point for what is normal. I've noticed that setting off the back can drop quite low. Maybe I'll just give it a good looking over and see how it goes.

Steve.

Does the rear drop low as you pull away, and then go back up when you ease off the power? If so, mine does the same. I just put it down to the supersoft comfy spheres thats's on it.

steelcityuk · Post by **steelcityuk** » 05 Jul 2006, 08:57

Yes it does. Today going to work the rear suspension bottomed out crossing a junction, I wasn't going fast and the junction isn't bad at all, I've crossed this junction many times in my pug and never had anything like it bottoming out. I've noticed that one of the rear bump stops is in bits, just like a small mis shapen piece of foam. Would this indicate a long term problem?

Thanks.

Steve.

AndersDK · Post by **AndersDK** » 05 Jul 2006, 19:33

Hi Steve -

The rubber stop MUST be present and in good condition. If not its metal to metal contact on the rear suspension - with the risc of a bent rearframe - or a sheared rear arm.

The Xantia is supposed to be more soft & comfy than a Peugeot - but NOT to an extent it bottoms out while driving on normal roads. In fact this should only happen during extreme driving conditions - and then still rarely.

My guess is that the car is fitted with the wrong spec spheres at rear - they are duly under-damped (too soft). Its the same situation you get when a normal car is driven with shot (or without) shockers.
The damper (shocker) valve is built into the suspension sphere - and is one of the reasons why there is such a huge selection of sphere types.

Citroen hydropneumatic suspension spheres are unique to either front or rear axle, to engine power, to engine weight, to affected axle load - and last but not least : the resultant damping characteristic wanted.

Its VERY important you get the correct sphere types for your Xantia model.
UNfortunately you cannot by the looks of the sphere identify its type. You can only feel during drive if its not right. From new they have type id printed on - or an ID sticker. But these quickly disappears due to the harsh road environment under the car.
FORtunately they are only some £20 ea. from new - and DIY friendly to replace.

steelcityuk · Post by **steelcityuk** » 07 Jul 2006, 08:50

Hi,

I need to look into this carefully. I've noticed that there's always an amount of fluid on top of the LHM tank and that the wiring loom isn't connected to it, I haven't found the wires yet either. But I've noticed that after turning off the engine there's a brief noise from the front of the car that I can only describe as like a toilet cistern filling (fluid movement?), I've assumed this is something to do with either anti sink or accumulator. However after this the LHM tank starts to pressurise slightly and the normally slightly concave top becomes convex and if I lift up the edge of the rubber cap air can be heard escaping. Is this normal or should the tank have a vent hole and this could be blocked?
On a better note I've changed the fuel/air/oil/pollen filters, replaced the oil and put a anti bacterial treatment through the ventilation system. I also changed the drive belt (not timing belt) because it looked very worn, it was too, it had 2 long splits in it.

Thanks for all your help and advice.

Steve.

Mandrake · Post by **Mandrake** » 07 Jul 2006, 09:15

steelcityuk wrote:Hi,

I need to look into this carefully. I've noticed that there's always an amount of fluid on top of the LHM tank and that the wiring loom isn't connected to it, I haven't found the wires yet either.

If there is a bit of fluid on the top of the tank all the time, and the level is not overfilled, its probably one of the small diameter return pipes leaking - there are 3 small diameter pipes near the middle of the group with rubber elbows and they're only a push tight fit - no hose clamps.

If the rubber has gone hard it wont seal properly and it will dribble down onto the top of the tank...

But I've noticed that after turning off the engine there's a brief noise from the front of the car that I can only describe as like a toilet cistern filling (fluid movement?),

Thats odd

I've assumed this is something to do with either anti sink or accumulator. However after this the LHM tank starts to pressurise slightly and the normally slightly concave top becomes convex and if I lift up the edge of the rubber cap air can be heard escaping. Is this normal or should the tank have a vent hole and this could be blocked?

Ok thats not normal - the LHM tank should not be pressurized... the vent hole is in the filler cap, which should have a small diameter overflow pipe connected to it which tucks down behind the tank. Sounds like someone has lost the cap and replaced it with one without a vent hose...have a look at the following pic:

http://homepages.igrin.co.nz/simon/imag ... irtest.jpg

You'll see the pipe coming from the filler cap going off down the back and also the wires to the level sensor. The extra section of clear pipe is not standard by the way, that was me diagnosing a problem. Nor is the screw driver which had fallen down the back of the tank during the picture.

Regards,
Simon

steelcityuk · Post by **steelcityuk** » 07 Jul 2006, 09:39

Hi Mandrake,

Thanks for the info and photo. I'll have a look down the back of the tank for the wires and check to see if the overflow hose is blocked or trapped. I'll check over the rubber elbows whilst I'm at it.

I'm really looking forward to getting it all sorted.

Steve.

steelcityuk · Post by **steelcityuk** » 15 Jul 2006, 00:12

Following Mandrakes reply, I decided to drain out the LHM, remove & clean out the tank and fill it with Hydraflush, oh and clean the filters at the same time. I've checked the vent hose too, it was trapped down the side of the tank, which explains the pressure build up. I found the missing wires too, they were down the back of the tank. I've noticed that today when the car was parked for 30 minutes or so the back end had sunk, would this be a stuck/faulty valve? Also the brakes seem a little strange in that initially they slow the car very well but then I find that I have to press harder to come to a full stop but this leads to very harsh braking. It's not progressive despite my best efforts, would this suggest air in the brakes? Finally I've been going over it's service history and it seems that the Xantia has had 3 replacement rear height valves, is this normal or just the mechanics being lazy?

Thanks.

Steve.