Citroen Xantia MOT fail

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Whitecrook
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Citroen Xantia MOT fail

Post by Whitecrook »

So I put my 1.9td LX estate 166,000 in for it's MOT and it failed on four counts,:

o/s front strut mount is falling apart it looks like some of the pictures posted in the 'spear thread'
HP pump leaking
brake hose n/s wheel need replaced
rear hydraulic tubes deteriorated


It's apparently going to cost about £500 if not more to get that lot fixed. Now in the last 18 months it has had 5 new spheres, new clutch, timing belt + wp, new pads + discs (2 x fronts!), new front sus wishbones (hence 2 x front discs),new n/s balljoint, new glow plugs, 4 new goodyears, drivers door hinge fixed, plus various cables and filters.

Before I sent it in to the MOT it seemed to have develped a vibration at 85-100 MPH.

Is there anything else pray tell me that could go wrong with this car and am I better paying the price and putting it in for the work + MOT or getting another and keeping this for parts (what parts, spheres and tyres?)

My thinking has been 'now that parts replaced it should keep going for another xxxx thousand miles' and then something else gos.

What would you do in this situation Xantia people!


There is someone selling a V6 exclusive near me and it looks interesting (a fast xantia!) but I feel that may be jumping from the frying pan into the fire - aren't these things even more expensive to maintain or have I just been unlucky?
--
'96 Xantia 1.9TD Estate
Stinkwheel
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Post by Stinkwheel »

My thoughts are, better the devil you know.

You have put that much work into it so far, you know these bits are good then why not carry on.

You never know what faults you will buy with something else.
"Rust Never Sleeps" said Neil Young. Did he own old citroens?
1998 Xantia TD exclusive auto estate +3 x BX's +77' ami 8 break + 73' dyane 6 + '83 2CV6 + 94' XM 2.1 sx auto + 89' XM2.0i
+ '85' GSA + '97 XM 2.0 16v + '81 Visa super E
LeeDJC
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Re: Citroen Xantia MOT fail

Post by LeeDJC »

Whitecrook wrote: It's apparently going to cost about £500 if not more to get that lot fixed.
I'm sure you can do that lot yourself for less than that price. Depends how mechanically minded you are though!
Whitecrook wrote: Before I sent it in to the MOT it seemed to have develped a vibration at 85-100 MPH.
Drive within the speed limit and you won't notice!!!

Seriously tho, is it anything to do with the wheel that needs replacing?
Whitecrook wrote: My thinking has been 'now that parts replaced it should keep going for another xxxx thousand miles'
I don't think that that is the correct thinking for the car of this age. You've got to realise, that however much money you throw at the car, there is always some sort of niggle or failure looming round the corner.
If it's piece of mind you want, then the only real option (in most cases!!) is to buy a brand new car!

Just my 2ps worth

Lee
Last edited by LeeDJC on 01 Jul 2006, 22:17, edited 1 time in total.
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andmcit
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Re: Citroen Xantia MOT fail

Post by andmcit »

Whitecrook wrote:rear hydraulic tubes deteriorated
Doesn't sound right!? :shock:

Is the tester being an extra neurotic old woman here - these things don't rot that easily. Does your local council absolutely coat the roads in the winter with grit or have you been reversing it into the sea...?

Get the car up on ramps and give it a good wirebrushing, genolite and paint them - there aren't THAT many!

The brake flexi is easily changed IF you are moderately mechanically minded and the hose costs about a tenner from GSF.

The High pressure pump leak will very likely be the lrage o ring seal on the main high pressure pipe port and is pennies from Citroen if you're prepared to undo it and clean it all up.

In terms of cost, the 'right git' is the strut top - the only good news is it's just the one side...

With all the above taken into consideration, you are better of spending the 110 quid for a new strut top and a tenner for the brake flexi - what kind of replacement with it's own agenda of unknown issues are you going to get for the equivalent money, be it at 120 or the 500 quid!?

Andrew
Last edited by andmcit on 02 Jul 2006, 12:11, edited 2 times in total.
davethewheel
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Post by davethewheel »

better the devil you know that's the approach i'm using, i've just tested my 1996 td, and it's costing around £350 to sort everything out, 2 strut tops at £110 each, £30 for a secondhand door (the hinge has snapped off) abs sensor around £70 and new disc's and pads for the rear, but at least i know the rest is sound, i did think of scrapping it and buying another but i could probably only stretch to around £1000 and there is no guarantee that you could buy another and have some big bills sorting it out :D
andmcit
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Post by andmcit »

My sister has been driving a 1990 boggo spec 2.0i Xm for the last 5+ years. A real bargain for 200quid with 70k miles on the clock. AND COR BLIMEY GUVNOR, IF IT HASN'T BEEN THE MOST RELIABLE CAR I'VE EVER SEEN!!

t merrily eats up the 15k+ miles a year and doesn't ask for anything, NEVER MISSING A BEAT, but gets a regular oil/filter change. Around Easter it was decided a drop in the fuel economy would need it having a going over with no real inkling of what would be needed doing and whilst it would be in 'dry dock having it's barnacles scraped off' a replacement steed was bought locally for a quite highist cost.

The thinking was the new one was a 55k mile XM 2.0i TURBO Si so would have ABS and a performance upgrade on a car 4 years younger than 'tother WITH A LOT MORE LIFE IN THE WHOLE RUNNING GEAR.

It wasn't accepted very well by mys sister and frankly she hated it for the first few weeks whilst I started looking at her original - there's quite a story to tell about the reason it's fual consumption was getting worse but that's for another thread...

My point? Well whilst the seemingly superior car had all bases covered in a strong superior position, the old faithful steed once fettled was welcomed back and in fact given an almost hysterical homecoming as it was by far the easier one to live with and although unable to pin down why, the more comfortable. I guess, as always, the best ride of Citroen's hydropneumatic models is the base one with the thinner anti roll bars etc etc.

The higher mileage, lower spec older car which on casual comparisons seemed the same as the other, didn't just edge it, it was a landslide!
Even if it didn't have a turbo.

Beter the devil you know in this instance allright!

Andrew
Whitecrook
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Re: Citroen Xantia MOT fail

Post by Whitecrook »

Well you guys seem to have re-motivated me, so...
andmcit wrote:
Whitecrook wrote:rear hydraulic tubes deteriorated
Doesn't sound right!? :shock:

Is the tester being an extra neurotic old woman here
My mistake the phrase is rear fluid suspension pipe insecure, i recall he mentioned it was rubbing on the wheel or the sus arm... but I looked under today and didn't see anything obvious, I'll check again.
The brake flexi is easily changed IF you are moderately mechanically minded and the hose costs about a tenner from GSF. ..The High pressure pump leak will very likely be the lrage o ring seal on the main high pressure pipe port and is pennies from Citroen if you're prepared to undo it and clean it all up.
I looked under the car today and I saw the piece of rubber hosing was cracked there's 2 pipes going into each caliper right? + the handbrake cable. What's the procedure for replacing this hose?


I gave the hp pump a clean. I'll check for visble leaks next couple of days. I looked through the Haynes BOL and only found info for removing the HP pump, are there any diagrams of what I should be changing here is it pretty straight forward?

With all the above taken into consideration, you are better of spending the 110 quid for a new strut top
Hmm reading the spear thread it seems doable, Is it really a case of depressurise, undo hoses + 4 bolts lift off and replace, where is this 24 mm nut?
--
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Re: Citroen Xantia MOT fail

Post by Homer »

Whitecrook wrote:
The brake flexi is easily changed IF you are moderately mechanically minded and the hose costs about a tenner from GSF. ..The High pressure pump leak will very likely be the lrage o ring seal on the main high pressure pipe port and is pennies from Citroen if you're prepared to undo it and clean it all up.
I looked under the car today and I saw the piece of rubber hosing was cracked there's 2 pipes going into each caliper right? + the handbrake cable.
2 pipes? No, just the one.

There will be 2 rubber hoses coming off the suspension cylinder, these often deteriorate and weep fluid causing an MOT failure though it's not really a serious problem.
andmcit
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Re: Citroen Xantia MOT fail

Post by andmcit »

Whitecrook wrote:Well you guys seem to have re-motivated me, so...
My mistake the phrase is rear fluid suspension pipe insecure, i recall he mentioned it was rubbing on the wheel or the sus arm... but I looked under today and didn't see anything obvious, I'll check again.
This could in actual fact be a low pressure plastic flexible return pipe - these route all over the place, though to have anything rubbed by the wheel takes some doing as Citroen did make quite an effort to avoid this very problem - sounds like something isn't where it's supposed to be. If it's just one pipe you could afford to let a kind local PLUS affordable Indy look at this for you - it's not quite the same as having EVERY pipe at the rear done like the 'old' Citroens...
Whitecrook wrote:I looked under the car today and I saw the piece of rubber hosing was cracked there's 2 pipes going into each caliper right? + the handbrake cable. What's the procedure for replacing this hose?
You'll notice the difference from the other connections onto the caliper housing once the wheel is off - the two you've seen are likely the ABS [if fitted] and the pad wear sensor wiring. There'll be two heftier feeds off the hub, one being the handbrake which I'd say is the heaviest off them all. Finally, there'll be another that comes off the 11-12 o clock part of the hub going up to the back middle[ish] part of the wheelarch - this has a spiralled metal reinforced wire that 's flexible and is the main brake feed. It's connected with big chunky captive bolts on either end and once carefully cleaned before undoing is only a hassle to sort when it's replaced as the brakes will then need bleeding.
Whitecrook wrote:I gave the hp pump a clean. I'll check for visble leaks next couple of days. I looked through the Haynes BOL and only found info for removing the HP pump, are there any diagrams of what I should be changing here is it pretty straight forward?

Somewhere I've got a cross sectioned drawing of the pump, but basically, if the main pipe is undone after you've depressurised everything, you'll see the outlet feed port has IIRC a kind of hollow nut that has a large o ring under the nut. Seriously, it's about 30pence from Citroen, I was going to sort a similar leak on my pipe but was lucky when I discovered it wasn't very tight, so on nipping it up it staopped!
Whitecrook wrote:Hmm reading the spear thread it seems doable, Is it really a case of depressurise, undo hoses + 4 bolts lift off and replace, where is this 24 mm nut?
In principle. You've got to drop the whole strut leg with the hub attached to the bottom downwards so there's clearance to undo the strut top and drop it down into the wheelarch area and off. Sure you'll need to undo a few things FIRST to let the strut top come off! There's the sphere first and foremost then the hydraulic feed pipe onto it and then from the main strut's body there's a slippery shiny piston that's effectively a long rod all the way up through the strut top and held against a taper by a large nut. I'm still adamant it's a 24mm but I may have just been working on VSX's all the time!
I keep going on about this point but when you knock the piston's threaded end down through the strut top first, don't damage the thread like I did!!
The remaining fiddle is the feeding of the inner piston rod up through the new replaced strut top. DON'T FORGET TO FIT THE BUMP STOP DONUT BEFORE YOU DO GET THE PISTON FED UP!! The rod can be gripped firmly and pulled upwards towards the strut top. It'll take a few minutes faffing but you only need to see a bit of the thread to start it off and then you'll be OK!

Andrew
davethewheel
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Post by davethewheel »

it's worth checking were the pipes come out of the pump as mine had a leak a while back and one of the pipes had just worked it's self loose and only needed about a quarter turn with a spanner and it stopped leaking :)
andmcit
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Re: Citroen Xantia MOT fail

Post by andmcit »

andmcit wrote:There's the sphere first and foremost then the hydraulic feed pipe onto it and then from the main strut's body there's a slippery shiny piston that's effectively a long rod all the way up through the strut top and held against a taper by a large nut. I'm still adamant it's a 24mm but I may have just been working on VSX's all the time!
Although I'm replying to myself here, I'm actually correcting myself!!

Simon is right where he states the nut sizes are different between hydractive & non h!! The nut size is BIGGER on the non hydractive - just checked the little black plastic cap off the VSX on my SX...

Andrew
Whitecrook
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Post by Whitecrook »

Where can I get the front strut mount for £110+vat? Is this the part that GSF do : N43464 HYDRAULIC STRUT GEN FR RH XANTIA 1.9TD/2.0 8V/2.0 16v RH FRONT £142 + vat

Citroen quoted £230 for one. Eurocarparts said no.

I took a look at the pipes at the rear and I found this:

Should these pipes just be kinda tucked up into the gap? They hang down about an inch.
Image

That is about the only thing I could see that could be insecure. The pipes around the rear sphere had some flex, but seemed OK.

Image

That is of the front n/s brake the flexi brake hose is new and so is the handbrake, the first 1.5 inch of the metal hose to the flexi hose seems a bit corroded, I rubbed it and flakes came off but it seems just surface rust and dirt.

A wire brush should sort that out. Is this a known thing to happen to the brake lines? I haven't been driving in the sea.



More pictures: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/k.malone97/citroen/
--
'96 Xantia 1.9TD Estate
andmcit
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Post by andmcit »

Now this is interesting! I've gone into the online Citroen parts site and checked out what I can determine is the right one, although I cannot see a specific reference to estate, so it may just be down to the sphere's being different.

Image

02 5271 E2 LEFT SPHERE BRACKET
- POWER STEERING AND HYDRACTIVE SUSPENSION
+ 5271 92 (01) TO O 6610
- POWER STEERING AND HYDRACTIVE SUSPENSION
+ 5271 92 (01) TO O 7244

HYD SUSPENSION SPHERE BRACKET £76.15 £89.48 with VAT

Cannot imagine why there's been so many different prices quoted. I go to my local gau and give him the part number and the price they charge me is the price that's listed!!

Andrew
andmcit
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Post by andmcit »

Those pipes tucked up as you say, look a bit random - don't appear familiar to me for anything to do with the suspension or hydraulics, more an ellaborate stitchup of towing electrics!!

Can you not have a word with the MOT tester to get more sense out of him - the guy I use shows me to the point he's not happy with on the car and explains what he has concerns about and what he'd expect/do if I paid him to fix it.

These brake hoses will crack and split on the rubber that's inside the spiralled wire reinforcement, so take a real close look!

Andrew
Whitecrook
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Post by Whitecrook »

andmcit wrote: more an ellaborate stitchup of towing electrics!!
Ahh yes!! I forgot about that.

I remember the part I was quoted for was Citroen part 527175 at £142 from GSF and was asked whether hydractive or not, what is the difference?

Does anyone know of a mail order supplier for the part I need? Just a phone number will do.

Thanks
--
'96 Xantia 1.9TD Estate
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