Will Citroen do such a beast to compete against the M5 and RS6 and AMG Mercs? It would be an interesting excercise by Citroen, they have made quick cars but not in the same league as the M5. I drool over M5's, never seen one being opened up on the public roads, they are usually full of old men.
I think the C6 souped up and dropped with a V8 would shift some road and drag some girls in at the same time? Anyone agree?
C6 supercar?
Moderator: RichardW
The traditional problem with large French cars has been their small engines - always attributed to the French tax laws which is no doubt a convenient excuse - as I'm sure there is no law preventing export only specs.
Interestingly the V6 diesel is the same unit I think as is used in the Range Rover Sport (not the Range Rover at present - this is a BMW straight 6)
Ford are very anxious for the Range Rover to thrive in the USA but at present its engine isn't big enough - and so a 3.5litre V8 version is planned for next year or something. There is also a petrol powered hybrid also planned for the USA as apparently the Americans will buy these but won't be seen dead in a diesel.
Making a V8 is a bit more complicated than sticking a couple more cylinders on as a V8 should have an angle of 90 degrees between the blocks, rather than 60 degrees for a V6 so what evolves could be interesting - but it may be they are looking for a huge volume if they have the USA market in view. I think the Range Rover V6 is made at Dagenham.
Could C6 get a V8 - probably down to the length of the engine. 2.7 V6 looks very small and there might be room in a C6. Interestingly the Range Rover uses a 6 speed auto (like C6) which seemed very smooth when I rode in one (I'd never have guessed it had so many gears unless it wasn't using all of them in sequence.) The Range Rover does have the usual 4X4 high/low box as well.
Interestingly the V6 diesel is the same unit I think as is used in the Range Rover Sport (not the Range Rover at present - this is a BMW straight 6)
Ford are very anxious for the Range Rover to thrive in the USA but at present its engine isn't big enough - and so a 3.5litre V8 version is planned for next year or something. There is also a petrol powered hybrid also planned for the USA as apparently the Americans will buy these but won't be seen dead in a diesel.
Making a V8 is a bit more complicated than sticking a couple more cylinders on as a V8 should have an angle of 90 degrees between the blocks, rather than 60 degrees for a V6 so what evolves could be interesting - but it may be they are looking for a huge volume if they have the USA market in view. I think the Range Rover V6 is made at Dagenham.
Could C6 get a V8 - probably down to the length of the engine. 2.7 V6 looks very small and there might be room in a C6. Interestingly the Range Rover uses a 6 speed auto (like C6) which seemed very smooth when I rode in one (I'd never have guessed it had so many gears unless it wasn't using all of them in sequence.) The Range Rover does have the usual 4X4 high/low box as well.
jeremy
The 2.7 lump is also in the JAG, although I bet it is not available in the States. They like their V8's but having driven many american cars I do wander why they don't like diesels? Modern diesels are much nicer to drive than some of their nice sounding, low output, rubbish mpg V8's.jeremy wrote:The traditional problem with large French cars has been their small engines - always attributed to the French tax laws which is no doubt a convenient excuse - as I'm sure there is no law preventing export only specs.
Interestingly the V6 diesel is the same unit I think as is used in the Range Rover Sport (not the Range Rover at present - this is a BMW straight 6)
Ford are very anxious for the Range Rover to thrive in the USA but at present its engine isn't big enough - and so a 3.5litre V8 version is planned for next year or something. There is also a petrol powered hybrid also planned for the USA as apparently the Americans will buy these but won't be seen dead in a diesel.
Making a V8 is a bit more complicated than sticking a couple more cylinders on as a V8 should have an angle of 90 degrees between the blocks, rather than 60 degrees for a V6 so what evolves could be interesting - but it may be they are looking for a huge volume if they have the USA market in view. I think the Range Rover V6 is made at Dagenham.
Could C6 get a V8 - probably down to the length of the engine. 2.7 V6 looks very small and there might be room in a C6. Interestingly the Range Rover uses a 6 speed auto (like C6) which seemed very smooth when I rode in one (I'd never have guessed it had so many gears unless it wasn't using all of them in sequence.) The Range Rover does have the usual 4X4 high/low box as well.
If Citroen were to sell cars (hydro) in the states I would imagine they would sell quite a lot due to the much nicer handling and comfort.
Diesel Golfs and pasats seem a popular diesel choice though.
Regards
Howie
2006 Fiat Idea Dynamic 1.3 Multijet
2010 Renault Laguna Dynamique tom tom 2.0 DCI 130
C5 VTR 2l 8v HDI Estate 112000 miles gone
Kia Rio 2007 1.5 CRDI 62,000 miles gone
2001 Dodge Durango 4.7 V8 170,000 miles gone
1999 Ford Crown Victoria 4.6 V8 151,000 miles gone
2006 Fiat Idea Dynamic 1.3 Multijet
2010 Renault Laguna Dynamique tom tom 2.0 DCI 130
C5 VTR 2l 8v HDI Estate 112000 miles gone
Kia Rio 2007 1.5 CRDI 62,000 miles gone
2001 Dodge Durango 4.7 V8 170,000 miles gone
1999 Ford Crown Victoria 4.6 V8 151,000 miles gone
The traditional problem with the large diesel engine when used in cars and 4 X 4 has been driveability. Even a large American V8 will rev to about 5000 RPM - whereas diesels of the same size would only rev to about 1800 RPM. (3 litre +) Diesels also tend and certainly traditionally have been very large and heavy - qualities which con't improve driveability either.
Its worth remembering that many fire appliances of the 1970's were made with Jaguar 4.2 6 cylinder engines - no doubt for this very reason. (Talk yourself through driving a 'sports lorry' round slow roundabouts - would you prefer 2000 RPM or 5000?)
If you look around about the largest high speed European engine has been the 2.5 litre VM and more recently the BMW 6 cylinder (2.8 litres?), Mercedes - 3 litre) - then you're dealing with commercial engines.
The Ameriacns love their large home produced cars - or did. The current attitude seems to be that if our traditional manufacturers are so bone headed that they won't give us small better cars, then the best thing we can do is encourage the foreigners to build their cars here as well. - which I suppose is what we have achieved by stealth.
Are Ford in danger of emerging as enlightened and technically progressive?
Its worth remembering that many fire appliances of the 1970's were made with Jaguar 4.2 6 cylinder engines - no doubt for this very reason. (Talk yourself through driving a 'sports lorry' round slow roundabouts - would you prefer 2000 RPM or 5000?)
If you look around about the largest high speed European engine has been the 2.5 litre VM and more recently the BMW 6 cylinder (2.8 litres?), Mercedes - 3 litre) - then you're dealing with commercial engines.
The Ameriacns love their large home produced cars - or did. The current attitude seems to be that if our traditional manufacturers are so bone headed that they won't give us small better cars, then the best thing we can do is encourage the foreigners to build their cars here as well. - which I suppose is what we have achieved by stealth.
Are Ford in danger of emerging as enlightened and technically progressive?
jeremy
the Range Rover V8 is based upon the 2.7 V6 but is 90 deg not 60 deg. 3630cc pokes out 272 bhp and 472 ib-ft of torque with help from a brace of turbos. Aluminium 4 valve heads with twin over head cams per bank sit on a high graphic iron block.
this lot will haul a Range Rover to a (limited) 124 mph (200kmh) an hit 60 in 8.5 seconds. go go juice disappears at 25.1 mpg.
info from LandRover Owner International Magazine WWW.LRO.COM
If it makes a Range Rover that quick what would it do to a C6 (or my ZX)!!!!!
this lot will haul a Range Rover to a (limited) 124 mph (200kmh) an hit 60 in 8.5 seconds. go go juice disappears at 25.1 mpg.
info from LandRover Owner International Magazine WWW.LRO.COM
If it makes a Range Rover that quick what would it do to a C6 (or my ZX)!!!!!
French car free zone....
lots of talk of diesel's, I don't think that is what the tread was about, more like making a proper HOT Citroen to complete with things like the M series.
I think the problem is that Citroen don't really have a 'hot tuning house' like BMW's M division or Merc's AMG. They have Citroen 'Sport' but I think thats more like a accessory shop.
Also its not really what they're about.
Personally I'd like to see the whole group given a tuning house to really see what they can produce. A kitted up C4 that will scare off Fords RS Foci & Vaux's VXR Astra would be cool. Its not like there isn't the market for it either, there are loads out there, add clio to the list above.
I'd like to see Citroen just say bugger it take a bonkers concept car, like the Sport Lounge, & bang it into production, with a proper 3.2l V6 so it goes like nothing before, Alfa proved that a concept can work, look at the simpy drooly Alfa Brera, or even better the soon to be arriving cabro version. Unfortuantly I think big bully bother Peugeot will have other ideas.
I saw a M5 once, breifly, came off a roundabout onto a streach of duel carrage way. There was the almighty burble & this blue M5 came up along side then just disappeared, as fast as that gone.
One of the best sounding cars right now has to be a SLK (& one of my fav's), one went past while I was waiting to cross the road, was a uphill section & he gunned it, sounded like a spitfire, love it love it love it!
So yes Citroen should make a HOT C6 very much so, but they probably never will.
I think the problem is that Citroen don't really have a 'hot tuning house' like BMW's M division or Merc's AMG. They have Citroen 'Sport' but I think thats more like a accessory shop.
Also its not really what they're about.
Personally I'd like to see the whole group given a tuning house to really see what they can produce. A kitted up C4 that will scare off Fords RS Foci & Vaux's VXR Astra would be cool. Its not like there isn't the market for it either, there are loads out there, add clio to the list above.
I'd like to see Citroen just say bugger it take a bonkers concept car, like the Sport Lounge, & bang it into production, with a proper 3.2l V6 so it goes like nothing before, Alfa proved that a concept can work, look at the simpy drooly Alfa Brera, or even better the soon to be arriving cabro version. Unfortuantly I think big bully bother Peugeot will have other ideas.
I saw a M5 once, breifly, came off a roundabout onto a streach of duel carrage way. There was the almighty burble & this blue M5 came up along side then just disappeared, as fast as that gone.
One of the best sounding cars right now has to be a SLK (& one of my fav's), one went past while I was waiting to cross the road, was a uphill section & he gunned it, sounded like a spitfire, love it love it love it!
So yes Citroen should make a HOT C6 very much so, but they probably never will.
yes the M5 is a beast of a car, always at the top of the class, there has always been a cat and mouse game between bmw audi and merc when it came to supersaloons, same cars in competition against each other but releasing cars at different times, so comparing them wasn't a fair thing to do
you are right there ross, citroen don't have tuning division, although peugeot have peugeot sport to 'rallye-atize' their 106, 205, 206, 306 cars with good results, but tuning a C6 would require big balls, there are independent tuning houses that aren't stuck to a particular make of cars.
I think the C6 could look incredible with the proper kit and be a good competitor against the 3 german dogs, i think the hydractive suspension has plenty of potential in terms of modification, it's good enough already, the engines need to be beefed up, we need at least 450bhp to be in german territory.
I want an M5! I want one I want one, but if Citroen do a C6 to whoppa the M5's butt hole i would be surprised.
you are right there ross, citroen don't have tuning division, although peugeot have peugeot sport to 'rallye-atize' their 106, 205, 206, 306 cars with good results, but tuning a C6 would require big balls, there are independent tuning houses that aren't stuck to a particular make of cars.
I think the C6 could look incredible with the proper kit and be a good competitor against the 3 german dogs, i think the hydractive suspension has plenty of potential in terms of modification, it's good enough already, the engines need to be beefed up, we need at least 450bhp to be in german territory.
I want an M5! I want one I want one, but if Citroen do a C6 to whoppa the M5's butt hole i would be surprised.
Hey Guysdeian wrote:i'm a big fan of the 5 litre v10 in the toerag, i bet that has some immense torque, can we talk about the C6 supercar now please?...lets make it rear wheel drive
My thoughts are skip past the M5 and AMG Trounce the RS6 with a Big Turbo Diesel and give it all wheel drive. Surly Citroen can put this string of WRC championships to good use and use them to sell some cars. Make it different with a 4ltr Diesel and a decent Transmision.
Thats my 2 bobs worth.
I drove a 2001 V8 M5 and it is an amaxing car but Citroen could produce a competitor if they set their mind to it.
Cheers
Mattg
I agree, diesel is the killer these days, look how quick the big diesels off bmw are? i think they do a twin turbo 3.5 diesel for the current 5 series, give that 4x4 and hydropneumatic suspension and you are talking one hell of a car, especially if citroen can pull such a trick off (the probably won't)... imagine an estate version of the C6 in that configuration, such a car would fall nicely into many categories and do the job well... again Citroen won't do it, unfortunately!
Also, some you may have come across the Lexus 450h, a hybrid car with 262bhp V6 and a 197bhp motor... which when working together produce immense torque and 340bhp, does 0-60 in 6 seconds and can do 155mph!
I hope Citroen get their thinking hats on or they will be left behind by the Japs and Germans.
Also, some you may have come across the Lexus 450h, a hybrid car with 262bhp V6 and a 197bhp motor... which when working together produce immense torque and 340bhp, does 0-60 in 6 seconds and can do 155mph!
I hope Citroen get their thinking hats on or they will be left behind by the Japs and Germans.
Matt - strange thing about the Citroen rally team is that although it is remarkable successful (well on track for its 3rd consecutive (4th?) championship) they make absolutely nothing of it and indeed seem almost embarrassed by it.
As far as I can see they are still using the Xsara and not C4 - so I don't really understand what that's all about.
As a general comment I would say that while they make brisk versions of their current models there are no outstandingly quick ones - like the CX GTi turbo and BX 16valve in their day.
Somehow I don't think they'll waste their money on something like that V8 powered Rover 75 that Rover tried as they went bust.
As far as I can see they are still using the Xsara and not C4 - so I don't really understand what that's all about.
As a general comment I would say that while they make brisk versions of their current models there are no outstandingly quick ones - like the CX GTi turbo and BX 16valve in their day.
Somehow I don't think they'll waste their money on something like that V8 powered Rover 75 that Rover tried as they went bust.
jeremy
Well Jeremy I must admit if it wasn't for Mr Loab and the mighty WRC XSARA I would probebly be driving an astra or somthing instead of my VTS Xsara. as rapid as it is it realy could do with another 30 kw. you would think that Citroen would want to by capitilising on the Megga Bucks put into rallying.jeremy wrote:Matt - strange thing about the Citroen rally team is that although it is remarkable successful (well on track for its 3rd consecutive (4th?) championship) they make absolutely nothing of it and indeed seem almost embarrassed by it.
As far as I can see they are still using the Xsara and not C4 - so I don't really understand what that's all about.
As a general comment I would say that while they make brisk versions of their current models there are no outstandingly quick ones - like the CX GTi turbo and BX 16valve in their day.
Somehow I don't think they'll waste their money on something like that V8 powered Rover 75 that Rover tried as they went bust.
Yes Seb is still driving a Xsara but will be in a C4 next year when Citroen officialy rejoins the championship.
This would have to be the first year a "privatee" is winning the WRC.
Cheers
Matt
I cannot imagine Citroen making anything "super-hot" and certainly not rear wheel drive - after all, their last RWD car was in 1934!. Even their faster/sportier cars have always had an emphasis on comfort and grand touring ability - the SM was the fastest front wheel car in the world when launched but was still marketed as a swift mile eater rather than a road racer. Same with the CX Turbo - it was, and is, a very fast car but not really marketed as such.
Even the Activa, with it's exceptional cornering ability, was not advertised as a rival to more traditional sports saloons.
I suppose the BX GTI/16v bucked this trend to an extent with it's macho advertising and agressive bodykit (the P2 i6v's look very mean).
I'm not sure I'd like to see a very fast C6 - I'd be more interested in a swift. luxurious diesel leading the world in the comfort stakes.
That's my rambling over with........
Rob
Even the Activa, with it's exceptional cornering ability, was not advertised as a rival to more traditional sports saloons.
I suppose the BX GTI/16v bucked this trend to an extent with it's macho advertising and agressive bodykit (the P2 i6v's look very mean).
I'm not sure I'd like to see a very fast C6 - I'd be more interested in a swift. luxurious diesel leading the world in the comfort stakes.
That's my rambling over with........
Rob
Citroen C5 2.2 HDi Exclusive Tourer
Peugeot Boxer 2.8 HDi Camper (conversation)
Previously;
Lots of Citroens including 2CVs, Dyane, Acadiane, Bx, Activa, XM CX and Picasso
Peugeot Boxer 2.8 HDi Camper (conversation)
Previously;
Lots of Citroens including 2CVs, Dyane, Acadiane, Bx, Activa, XM CX and Picasso