installing a turbo charger on RFX - for knowledge

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erez
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installing a turbo charger on RFX - for knowledge

Post by erez »

hi,
just for knowledge, is it possible to install a turbo charger on a xantia with 2.0 RFX 8V engine? 1997.
what needs to be changed for that project?
just a question - don't kill me!
thanx, Erez.
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AndersDK
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Post by AndersDK »

yes -

It is "possible".
But large modifications must be expected.

If we take it as a "fun for hobby" project - all you need is the turbo with matching original exhaust & intake manifolds - and a matching downpipe connecting to the first damper box.
You dont even need the intercooler just to make it work - the intercooler could be made a separate later project.

Now you are basically ready with more air to your engine intake - but you will need some means of correcting the fuel to gain anything on engine power. That would be a re-map of your existing ECU - or the usage of a turbo engine ECU matching your engine volume.

thats all there is to it really - to make some fun and have a setup to learn from.

But you still have a long way to go optimising for real power.

I'm sure the following submissions will be full of "crap Anders" - and "goto tuning city getting real power" etc etc.
But I defo recognise your way of thinking : just to get started and having some fun for small money 8)
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erez
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Post by erez »

thanx, but,
the point was to install a low pressure turbo, just for a small increase of power,
the car runs on lpg, so the lpg computer can be modified at any time.
the car is running on petrol only when starting the engine, i assume that 3 minutes of running slowly on petrol - will be ok...

another thing is, engine parts, are there any changes needs to be done to the engine itself for a low pressure turbo?
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Post by AndersDK »

What you mean by a low pressure turbo ?
Do you in fact think of a beltdriven compressor instead ?

If its nothing fancy - and not for high power modification - I would not worry on the engine itself. It would readily withstand an increase of some 25-35% power.
But I suspect that all you want really is to re-gain the power lost using LPG as fuel ?

Erez - write and lets learn about your project mate - you made me really nosy now :lol:
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Post by Peter.N. »

In addition to the exhaust and inlet pipework you will have to provide an oil feed and return for the turbo. A 'T' piece in the oil switch will provide a feed but for the return you will have to fit a connection into the sump. Many years ago I fitted a turbo the a Perkins 4/108 engine, in the early days of turbo technology, you get quite good at making up pipework!
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Post by stevieb »

If you're thinking of fitting the kind of turbo fitted to the Pug/Cit turbo engines (Xantia/XM/406/605) then you'll need an extra water feed too, as these turbos are water cooled.

I guess this is where you've got the "low pressure" idea from, as these turbos are known as low pressure. Though I've no idea what pressure they are supposed to work at...
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Post by erez »

Hi and thanx for the replies!

actually i got the low pressure idea from volvo....
the problem is that my engine is a bit lazy, when you said a belt driven, i gave me an idea, it's much simpler than building a new manifold.

let me check if there is a low pressure device like this...
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Post by Sturdybloke »

Are you not going to reduce the engine compression ratio? Or are you going to use a blower with such a low pressure output that you wont need to reduce the compression ratio? This topic sounds very interesting though........ 8) (do come back and tell us if you go ahead with it)
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Post by AndersDK »

Sturdybloke wrote:Are you not going to reduce the engine compression ratio? Or are you going to use a blower with such a low pressure output that you wont need to reduce the compression ratio? This topic sounds very interesting though........ 8) (do come back and tell us if you go ahead with it)
Please note my last words in my above submission 8)

BTW : this car is running LPG - which has quite high Octane rating ?
So why bother on compression ratio fitting any air blower to the engine intake ?
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Post by jeremy »

At the risk of totally misunderstanding things - is the 2.0 litre 8 valve RFX engine essentially the same as the 2.0 CT? low pressure engine as fitted to the Xantia Activa?

If it is I suppose its a detailed study of the differences in the parts book to see what mods are needed and indeed easily available.

I'd have thought it was an excellent modification - subject to the usual proviso of it being done properly.

Where would you add the gas? - before the turbo or after?

Nice bit of electronics etc would be to change over to petrol for hard acceleration - or a bit on nitrous oxide for luck!
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Post by erez »

jeremy wrote:At the risk of totally misunderstanding things - is the 2.0 litre 8 valve RFX engine essentially the same as the 2.0 CT? low pressure engine as fitted to the Xantia Activa?
that was my next question!
where can i find out the differences between the two engines?
about the lpg,
the injectors are in the intake manifold very close to the engine block.
the computer of the lpg is no problem to modify, and also not a problem to change the injectors size of the lpg system.

when i said a turbocharger, i meant a rate of about 0.6 0.5 bar, somthing like that, now that you mentioned the belt driven charger, is it possible to find a low pressure charger like this?
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Post by AndersDK »

Well -

Mercedes type xxK had kompressor engines. Otherwise I think that beltdriven air compressors for engine charging has been pressed out the side lane - by later technology - like turbo charging - multi valves - and not least the giant technology steps in diesel engine developments.

I'd say in general you are back in the '70-'80 model ranges to find any early car with a charge compressor.
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Post by Sturdybloke »

The Fiat Uno turbo had a low output turbo. About 0.7 bar IIRC. The VW Polo G40 (Mk 2) used a belt driven supercharger but im told that these are expensive as there are not that many around (even knackered ones are snapped up by owners to re-build). If you are going through the hassle of fitting a turbo to your car I (personally) would go the little bit further and fit a intercooler into your system. Think about it for a moment - do you want to go through all this hassle and then end up with a melted piston(s) because the intake air became to hot due to the compressor :oops: .
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Post by jeremy »

The idea of low pressure boost is really to improve response by allowing a small turbo to be used. The idea is that the small turbo has light revolving parts and so they will speed up quicker than a larger turbo and so boost is available that bit quicker. Of no interest if you want to drive a stationary generator but vitally important for driving pleasure.

The other way of achieving rapid response is to use a supercharger - as has been done by Jaguar for their XJR models for many years now. The problem is that the supercharger takes power to drive it rather than using the 'free' exhaust gasses - and this may adversly affect fuel consumption (not by much for the Jags it must be said) and also of course a robust drive has to be arranged (which may be a problem on a Citroen which is usually a bit 'Challenged' at the pulley end)

What will blow up is of course the interesting bit - and I'd look on the PR net at the spares diagrams to see what the differences are between your engine and the CT BUT this may not be conclusive as bits may be rationalised for spares. (Land Rover used to use different cranks for new petrol and diesel engines - but supplied diesel only for spares - so the parts book shows the same bit for both!)
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Post by AndersDK »

Please correct me if I'm wrong guys -

But I only found 2 versions of the 8V 2.0L petrol engines in pre-facelift (-> '98 ) Xantias : XU10J2 & XU10J2TE(turbo)

Here are the links to some of the drawings on these 2 engine types :
0290 01 002025 ENGINE INJECTION XU10J2
http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 020250.gif
0290 01 114025 CYLINDER BLOCK PISTON INJECTION XU10J2
http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 140250.gif
0290 01 112025 CYLINDER HEAD - COVER INJECTION XU10J2
http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 120250.gif
0290 01 121025 CRANKSHAFT PULLEY INJECTION XU10J2 ET BVM http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 210250.gif
0290 02 140006 INTAKE MANIFOLD AIR DISTRIBUTOR INJECTION XU10J2
http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 400060.gif
0290 06 183025 FRONT CATALYTIC EXHAUST MANIFOLD INJECTION XU10J2 SAUF DEPOL US 83 (MOTEUR) SAUF DEPOL CEE 19-5 (MOTEUR) SAUF DEPOL CEE 95 (MOTEUR)
http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 830250.gif

0290 01 002028 ENGINE INJECTION TURBO XU10J2TE
http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 020280.gif
0290 01 114028 CYLINDER BLOCK PISTON INJECTION TURBO XU10J2TE
http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 140280.gif
0290 01 112027 CYLINDER HEAD - COVER INJECTION TURBO XU10J2TE
http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 120270.gif
0290 01 121028 CRANKSHAFT PULLEY INJECTION TURBO XU10J2TE ET BVM
http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 210280.gif
0290 01 172001 TURBO CHARGER OIL RETURN HOSE INJECTION TURBO XU10J2TE http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 720010.gif
0290 02 140008A INTAKE MANIFOLD AIR DISTRIBUTOR INJECTION TURBO XU10J2TE DEPUIS OPR 07665 http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 40008A.gif
0290 06 183027 FRONT CATALYTIC EXHAUST MANIFOLD INJECTION TURBO XU10J2TE
http://www.citroen-pr.net/catalogues/il ... 830270.gif
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